Sisko gets to name runabouts?
- Thread starter t_smitts
- Start date
I thought it'd be more prophetic if he used the name Rubicon for its other definition:
- n.
A limit that when passed or exceeded permits of no return and typically results in irrevocable commitment.
But, yeah, with Rio Grande...
That's what the River Rubicon meant: the place at which an appointed magistrate was expected to divest themselves of military authority before entering Rome. Crossing the Rubicon meant challenging the existing authority.
In the recent novel Original Sin, Sisko has branched out to mythological rivers - the Styx and the Acheron.
True, but Yellowstone is also the name of a well known national park. I always suspected runabouts for this new class would be named after them. There's already a ship named the Yosemite, but other ships of class could've been the Sequoia or the Banff, etc.
And actually several runabouts were never indicated by name. For the first four seasons, they were pretty diligent in stating which runabout was lost in an episode, and in identifying its replacement soon after:
-The Yangtee Kiang crashed in "Battle Lines" and was replaced with the Orinoco by "The Siege"..
-The Ganges was destroyed in "Armageddon Game" and was replaced with the Mekong by "Whispers".
-The Mekong (identified by process of elimination) was abandoned in "The Die is Cast" and was replaced with the Rubicon by "Family Business".
-The Orinoco was destroyed in "Our Man Bashir" and was replaced with the Yukon by "Sons of Mogh".
-DS9 was also assigned at least a fourth runabout, the Volga, by "Body Parts".
After that, the runabouts get treated more like shuttles, without much worry about identifying them or their replacements. We don't know the name of the runabout destroyed in "The Ship". It wasn't the Rio Grande, Yukon, or Volga. I assumed it was the Rubicon, until "One Little Ship". Maybe they were assigned a fifth or even sixth runabout. We don't know the name of the runabout destroyed in "Empok Nor" either. They introduced the Shenandoah and Gander in later seasons, but we don't know which runabouts they were replacing, or even if they were replacements at all.
What would Picard have named the (original) runabout assigned to the Enterprise?
Rhine (longest river in Europe), Loire (longest French river), Ognon (river near La Barre).
Or something random? The fact that they haven't had a USS Mississippi on DS9 potentially argues against the CO being the one to name the runabouts.
Rhine (longest river in Europe), Loire (longest French river), Ognon (river near La Barre).
Or something random? The fact that they haven't had a USS Mississippi on DS9 potentially argues against the CO being the one to name the runabouts.
One thing I sort of just...assumed in this regard is it may be something unique to starbases.
For example, if DS9 and Earth Space Dock both want to name a runabout the USS Rio Grande...does it really matter? They are just runabouts. I know they can travel decent distances but they are generally assigned to a 'base' which they don't travel that far from. I've always just guessed it doesn't matter in the same way the name of a full-blown starship would matter.
Also, I wonder if they have moved a bit beyond traditional naming. I understand naming of ships just now does tend to require unique names but....perhaps by the 24th century what is actually scribbled on a runabout doesn't really matter: I'd assume each one has some kind of unique transmitter/code that a starship can identify it with using a scan. A 'name' might be much more decorative by that point.
Just a couple of thoughts on the matter.
For example, if DS9 and Earth Space Dock both want to name a runabout the USS Rio Grande...does it really matter? They are just runabouts. I know they can travel decent distances but they are generally assigned to a 'base' which they don't travel that far from. I've always just guessed it doesn't matter in the same way the name of a full-blown starship would matter.
Also, I wonder if they have moved a bit beyond traditional naming. I understand naming of ships just now does tend to require unique names but....perhaps by the 24th century what is actually scribbled on a runabout doesn't really matter: I'd assume each one has some kind of unique transmitter/code that a starship can identify it with using a scan. A 'name' might be much more decorative by that point.
Just a couple of thoughts on the matter.
I feel like they do and were supposed to matter just like starships other wise why would they have a registry number attached to them. Let's remember that in the first episode there was no mention of naming the runabouts they probably already had names when they got to the station or at least we don't really have any reason to think they didn't back then. It wasn't till the episode in which they mention the Rubicon that we hear about this and only in that episode. So my personal opinion is that Starfleet has a database with all the available runabout/ river names and the CO's can assign names from the list to their runabouts (but not registry numbers) which could explain why we never got a new Ganges or Yangtzee Kiang after they were lost, Maybe someone from another base grabbed those names before Sisko got his replacement runabouts in.
Or they want the runabouts to be clearly named after rivers rather than states, to avoid committing themselves to any future government patterns of the region. Or they wanted to avoid well-known United States Navy battleships.
In official orders and transmissions, I assume Starfleet, like Earth navies back to the 18th century, uses registry numbers or penant numbers rather than names. However names are used in so many unofficial communications it still seems desirable for the names to be unique throughout Starfleet. It didn't matter with TOS Enterprise's shuttlecraft, because they were sublight craft that could never go more than a small distance from their mother ship, but we are shown the DS9 runabouts going to different star systems very far from Bajor. Thus, their own registration numbers.
It seems most likely to me that naming runabouts after rivers is Sisko's idea, and other stations or starships with runabouts use some other naming convention.
Odds and ends:
1) O'Brien in "Paradise" feels compelled to describe the runabout as a new type of vessel to a bunch of ignorant civilians. We may assume this is because runabouts are a new concept; because the Danube class is a new type of runabout; or because O'Brien has little patience to correct the civilians on their misconceptions and militaria shortcomings.
2) In any case, the specific class is supposedly already named Danube after a craft that does not get assigned to DS9 when the show opens. A theme of English names of Earth rivers would seem established from the get-go, then, or at least we don't need to assume Sisko gets any leeway or is innovating when applying names like that on his later possessions.
3) Are runabouts typically assigned to outposts? DS9 is our only example of such; "Timescape" may be a counterexample.
4) Then again, nothing about the "Timescape" craft suggests she would be part of the E-D auxiliary contingent, or on her way of becoming such. But nothing connects her to a specific starbase, either. Her being devoid of pennant paint need not be any more significant than the different E-D or Voyager shuttles having a range of dissimilar pennant styles (the later of which try to make the names and numbers as difficult for us to tell apart as possible - the in-universe reason for this is left as an exercise to the reader).
5) DSC now shows us how starship pennants get painted and repainted on the run - there's a bot for it! Probably the naming and renaming of shuttles is similarly effortless technologically, and the bureaucracy may be light as well.
6) Many an interstellar "shuttle" may have been a runabout in technical terms, just like some "shuttle" flights were conducted by an Oberth in TNG. Say, the unidentified craft from "Skin of Evil" could have been the immediate predecessor of the Danube class in the runabout category, with Excelsior style nacelles and a cockpit compatible with the shuttles of the day for pilot convenience.
Timo Saloniemi
1) O'Brien in "Paradise" feels compelled to describe the runabout as a new type of vessel to a bunch of ignorant civilians. We may assume this is because runabouts are a new concept; because the Danube class is a new type of runabout; or because O'Brien has little patience to correct the civilians on their misconceptions and militaria shortcomings.
2) In any case, the specific class is supposedly already named Danube after a craft that does not get assigned to DS9 when the show opens. A theme of English names of Earth rivers would seem established from the get-go, then, or at least we don't need to assume Sisko gets any leeway or is innovating when applying names like that on his later possessions.
3) Are runabouts typically assigned to outposts? DS9 is our only example of such; "Timescape" may be a counterexample.
4) Then again, nothing about the "Timescape" craft suggests she would be part of the E-D auxiliary contingent, or on her way of becoming such. But nothing connects her to a specific starbase, either. Her being devoid of pennant paint need not be any more significant than the different E-D or Voyager shuttles having a range of dissimilar pennant styles (the later of which try to make the names and numbers as difficult for us to tell apart as possible - the in-universe reason for this is left as an exercise to the reader).
5) DSC now shows us how starship pennants get painted and repainted on the run - there's a bot for it! Probably the naming and renaming of shuttles is similarly effortless technologically, and the bureaucracy may be light as well.
6) Many an interstellar "shuttle" may have been a runabout in technical terms, just like some "shuttle" flights were conducted by an Oberth in TNG. Say, the unidentified craft from "Skin of Evil" could have been the immediate predecessor of the Danube class in the runabout category, with Excelsior style nacelles and a cockpit compatible with the shuttles of the day for pilot convenience.
Timo Saloniemi
I'm sure he got over it.
Especially since in the novels, Ben is currently in command of a ship named after Jackie Robinson...
Good call! I guess there might be pompous official committees for naming big starships, but less formality on what to call the latest support craft design. Whatever gets scribbled in the corner of the blueprints just gets accepted as is.
Perhaps Sisko wanted to design a yacht for interstellar fishing trips all along, and chose the name accordingly? (I assume the Danube is pollution-free and full of edibles in the 24th century. But perhaps fishing enthusiasts on Earth are accosted by those we-don't-enslave-animals-for-food folks and don't listen to the we-don't-enslave-we-just-kill counterargument, forcing the likes of Sisko and Riker to go interstellar.)
Timo Saloniemi
Perhaps Sisko wanted to design a yacht for interstellar fishing trips all along, and chose the name accordingly? (I assume the Danube is pollution-free and full of edibles in the 24th century. But perhaps fishing enthusiasts on Earth are accosted by those we-don't-enslave-animals-for-food folks and don't listen to the we-don't-enslave-we-just-kill counterargument, forcing the likes of Sisko and Riker to go interstellar.)
Timo Saloniemi
In case anyone's interested, there's always the Credit (aka Missinihe). I've thought it would be the perfect name for a starship, given the name's history:
Cooperation between two different people groups.
As for Sisko, rank hath its privileges. Naming runabouts is one of them.
Cooperation between two different people groups.
As for Sisko, rank hath its privileges. Naming runabouts is one of them.
