Similarities between Wrath of Khan and First Contact

[The Overlord]

It seems like many Star Trek movies tried to ape "Wrath of Khan", the last 3 Star Trek movies doing that to one degree or another. Though I think the movie that best captured the feel of Wrath of Khan, while telling its own story, was First Contact. The difference is, instead of creating a Khan knock off like Nero or Shinzon, First Contact flipped the script from Wrath of Khan. In Star Trek 2, Khan was obsessed with revenge on Kirk to the point of madness and Picard was obsessed with revenge against the Borg to the point of madness in First Contact, the difference is Picard stepped back from the brink, while Khan let his quest for revenge destroyed him.

So you think First Contact and Wrath of Khan are similar? Do you think First Contact was the best homage to Wrath of Khan?

 

[Tosk]

Personally, I wish there were no *cough* "homages" to WoK. But if it's a contest between FC, NEM, and STID...yeah, I guess I'd go with FC. Begrudgingly.

FC even sort of does the 'Chekov wasn't there in Space Seed' routine, by giving us fake flashbacks to when Picard met the Queen in an episode of TNG.

 

[Paradise City]

Watching it, I didn't feel they were influenced by TWOK in FC at all. It just didn't occur to me. Picard's behaviour gets very erratic for an extended period, Kirk gives his infamous yell but other than that he stays composed, IIRC. Kirk isn't that bothered with revenge, it's Kahn that has the grudge.

I saw TWOK in Nemesis in the way Data sacrifices himself which was quite like Spock in TWOK. I thought that was quite unoriginal when I saw it.

 

[The Overlord]

Watching it, I didn't feel they were influenced by TWOK in FC at all. It just didn't occur to me. Picard's behaviour gets very erratic for an extended period, Kirk gives his infamous yell but other than that he stays composed, IIRC. Kirk isn't that bothered with revenge, it's Kahn that has the grudge.

I saw TWOK in Nemesis in the way Data sacrifices himself which was quite like Spock in TWOK. I thought that was quite unoriginal when I saw it.

I think you are missing my point, I'm saying Picard is similar to Khan in First Contact, not Kirk.

They are both obsessed with revenge to the point it distracts them from everything else, heck they both invoke Ahab from Moby Dick, the difference is Picard stepped back from the brink before it was too late, Khan didn't.

So while I think First Contact and TWOK have some similarities, they are different enough to stand on their own, unlike say Nemesis which is just a TWOK knock off.

 

[Paradise City]

I think you are missing my point, I'm saying Picard is similar to Khan in First Contact, not Kirk.

They are both obsessed with revenge to the point it distracts them from everything else, heck they both invoke Ahab from Moby Dick, the difference is Picard stepped back from the brink before it was too late, Khan didn't.

So while I think First Contact and TWOK have some similarities, they are different enough to stand on their own, unlike say Nemesis which is just a TWOK knock off.

Well, you said in the OP that they flipped TWOK and made First Contact from it, no? My point is that I don't think FC was influenced by that film at all.

I don't really see much of Kahn in Picard either. Picard is fundamentally a good guy for one thing. He just goes overboard as the E gets conquered by the borg - that's a very personal, invasive thing which promptly unshackles all his demons which temporarily overwhelms him. He sobers up after a sermon from Lily. Kahn is wholly a villain that never sobers up and is immune to any appeal. Sure, there's a bit of Moby Dick in both but that's a generic archetype rather than the writers sayings lets flip TWOK n' make it TNG fresh. TWOK is certainly on the brain with Nemesis and the JJ films however, so I agree with that.

 

[DonIago]

Frankly I think it's more accurate to say they're both homages to Moby Dick.

Though TWOK includes homages to other books as well.

 

[Khan 2.0]

have always considered FC as TNGs 'Khan' - Moby Dick, 2nd improved film, sequel to an ep that features popular villain, new uniforms, more militaristic tone. There was just enough 'Khan' but not too much to be a rip off (Nemesis)

 

[M-Red]

I think TWOK is so highly regarded that people can see forced similarities in other pieces of Trek where they weren't intended to exist.

FC also had human beings and spaceships....just like TWOK.

 

[Tosk]

An unintended similarity between two things is hardly uncommon.

There are also similarities between TMP/ST09 and STB/STIII...whether they were meant to be doesn't mean they don't exist.

 

[The Toddler]

While we're at it, First Contact went where several other Trek films went before, too. The powerful menace heading toward Earth was already done in TMP and TVH, and time travel to save the Earth in TVH.

 

[Phoenix219]

Watching it, I didn't feel they were influenced by TWOK in FC at all. It just didn't occur to me. Picard's behaviour gets very erratic for an extended period, Kirk gives his infamous yell but other than that he stays composed, IIRC. Kirk isn't that bothered with revenge, it's Kahn that has the grudge.

I saw TWOK in Nemesis in the way Data sacrifices himself which was quite like Spock in TWOK. I thought that was quite unoriginal when I saw it.

Yeah, that ending coudln't have been more blatant if it tried... right down to Data's essence implied to be in B4, katra style.... but having to relearn it all and put the pieces back in the proper place.