Silicon Avatar - morally conflicting plot

[Timo]

If it attacks and kills sentient beings, it's basically a declaration of war and should be treated equally.

At Omicron Theta at least, the beast appeared to eat the whole planet - the few colonists might have been an irrelevant and essentially unnoticed smidgen of biomass. The same appears to go for the planet where Riker lost his sweetheart. We don't know the full story of the other targets Marr speaks about, but we do know that at least one target was a spacecraft whose only biomass was that of her crew. Nothing about that should indicate the CE knows about the concept of sapience, though. Biomass is biomass.

Doesn't mean we couldn't declare war on the CE species. We declare wars on wolves and sharks, after all. Although we still prevaricate on whether to declare one on mosquitoes.

In practice, though, combat shields protect humanoid sapience. So "feeding 'em antelopes" could be achieved by letting whole planets die around the humanoid colonies. Living planets are a dime in a dozen in Star Trek, after all, and the CE species hasn't endangered the supply yet. But ecological management would call for at least some data, regardless of whether it takes the form of declaring war or dishing out Danegeld.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[xanne]

No, it shouldn't been destroyed.
They're supposed to be explorers don't they? let them explore new worlds and civilizations but just keep in mind they shouldn't be there in the first place, sorry to say but mankind is not designed to live out in space actually.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

So I just finished watching the episode Solicon Avatar, and I have to say I don't think the moral position the captain took was the right one. It seemed really off-colour actually.

The Crystalline Entity should have been hunted and destroyed. Regardless of Kila Mars need for vengeance which was positioned in the plot to assume the wrong approach, the entity destroyed entire planets and killed thousands of people. 11 recorded instances of total destruction.

I genuinely don't understand why the captain didn't want to kill it when they meet towards the end. Being such a threat to humanity it needed to be neutralised. However throughout the episode the captains approach seems too naive in wanting peace.

I understand that later it is discovered that the entity needs matter to absorb so it can convert into energy to survive, but the fact remains it is a danger to the federation and should have been destroyed by the enterprise.

After Kila Mars destroyed the entity, the episode seemed to have portrayed this as a bad move. I don't think this was bad at all. Thoughts?

Picard was prepared to destroy the entity if it was necessary. He was never going to let it go unless he could leave with confidence that it would stop feeding on worlds with intelligent inhabitants. Maybe they would have failed to come to an understanding, but Mars stopped it before they could even pursue that avenue.

Morally condemning the crystalline entity for killing people is like morally condemning a lion for killing people, or a bear. Like a bear, if you can render it harmless to humans, you leave it alone.

 

[Leviathan]

He forgot to yell "IT'S COMING RIGHT AT US" before firing.

I suspect a courts martial is in order.

 

[Armus]

So I just finished watching the episode Solicon Avatar, and I have to say I don't think the moral position the captain took was the right one. It seemed really off-colour actually.

The Crystalline Entity should have been hunted and destroyed. Regardless of Kila Mars need for vengeance which was positioned in the plot to assume the wrong approach, the entity destroyed entire planets and killed thousands of people. 11 recorded instances of total destruction.

I genuinely don't understand why the captain didn't want to kill it when they meet towards the end. Being such a threat to humanity it needed to be neutralised. However throughout the episode the captains approach seems too naive in wanting peace.

I understand that later it is discovered that the entity needs matter to absorb so it can convert into energy to survive, but the fact remains it is a danger to the federation and should have been destroyed by the enterprise.

After Kila Mars destroyed the entity, the episode seemed to have portrayed this as a bad move. I don't think this was bad at all. Thoughts?

I think Riker vocalized the reasons to destroy the creature very well. It was a dangerous threat. Kila Mars was motivated too much by vengeance and grief.

 

[DonIago]

There's no reason to destroy it if you can address its dangerous behavior in other ways.

 

[Timo]

We already saw that the standard defenses of frontier colonies and commercial spaceships are inadequate for protection. So leaving the entity alive for closer study might never reveal a weakness that could be affordably and effectively exploited; if colonies could be better armed or freighters better shielded, this would already have happened for unrelated reasons.

The point is that close study would appear to be a vital step in destroying the entity. Yes, it's fragile as all hell - just shoot first and you're done. But until now, the entity has struck where no guns have been available for striking first. Figuring out a pattern in its behavior, a telltale signal to be detected from afar, or perhaps a working lure, would appear absolutely necessary before the killing can commence. Especially if it's a whole species out there.

A random nonlethal way of dealing with the entity might also emerge from the study, and that would be nice. This shouldn't be the prime motivation driving the study, though.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

Our Heroes had begun the process of communicating with it before Marr took matters into her own hands.

 

[Timo]

And Lore thought he had a communication going with the entity. Turns out he was just delusional, or at least the entity paid no heed to what he said.

What our heroes had achieved was finding how the entity talked. For all they knew, what it actually said was "bark, bark, woof, woof". (And no, the UT doesn't talk dog or cat, or Data wouldn't need to experiment with Feline Supplement #987b and Aquiel's dog would have been a key witness.)

Alternately, the gravitic signals were not communication at all. Rather, the heroes poked the beast in its belly, and the belly wobbled back.

Or then there could have been a debate on ethics and politics two minutes into that conversation, with Picard crumbling under the barrage of crystal-clear arguments, multifaceted analysis and brilliant witticism. We will never know now.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

Well, that is the tragedy of the episode, beyond Marr allowing her past to destroy her future; we'll never know what might have happened.

 

[Shawnster]

Morally condemning the crystalline entity for killing people is like morally condemning a lion for killing people, or a bear. Like a bear, if you can render it harmless to humans, you leave it alone.

Typically any animal that has killed a human is captured and destroyed. It's probably rare that such an animal is not put down after killing a human.

 

[DonIago]

^But what is the basis for that course of action, and is that basis rational, much less applicable to spaceborne entities?

 

[Timo]

The basis is simple enough: any animal that has discovered how ridiculously easy we humans are as prey, and how delicious we taste, is up to too good a thing to ever give it up, even if we did manage to communicate with it.

The rationale is rational but not necessarily sound. Kill a man-eating alpha wolf (but not his pack) and you probably create more danger than if you let it live. Yet to realize that you have to know about wolves. The Feds know squat about the CE, unless there's more to Marr's expertise than the dialogue reveals.

Humans are good at inventing tricks, tho. How to deal with wolves is an art and a craft, and different from how to deal with bears, or with locusts. The CE would no doubt require a customized approach, regardless of whether that was based on communication or unilateral action.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

That would seem to bolster the case that there was no need to destroy it until other options had been more fully explored, especially given that Our Heroes were in the very process of discovering an option that could have made a difference.

 

[Timo]

Essentially, the one thing the heroes would need to discover is where the CE is going to strike next. That can be accomplished by several ways:

1) Learn its feeding habits. In this episode, this was not learned. And it might require a prolonged study: even if the CE readily communicated, it might be telling lies.

2) Learn how to spot it from a distance. In this episode, this was not learned. But now that the CE was at point blank range for the second time, the heroes probably could take the relevant sensor readings and make the required experiments to discover the trick of spotting the creature before it struck.

3) Learn how to lure it in, thus actively altering where it goes. Now this was learned in the episode, and might be all they need. Now that they killed this particular CE, they could lure in others and kill them the same way: after all, if the beasts communicate by gravitic signals, Picard could rest assured their victim had not communicated with its species-mates about the trap or it would have been overheard.

Indeed, #3 is the most desirable alternative, as it requires the least effort on Starfleet's part: no rapid response deployments, no anti-CE patrols, just one big buffalo hunt every now and then. That is, potentially part from #4:

4) Learn to argue with the CE and dissuade the entire species from attacking UFP assets (and persuade it into attacking foes, perhaps).

But if an argument is possible, then sufficient intelligence on the other end probably exists for dishonesty, too. Or for unilateral rewriting of the deal if the CE species decides the current wording is against their interests.

After all, the Cardassians haven't been negated as a threat despite being easy to communicate with and trivially easy to shoot to pieces if a Starfleet vessel happens to be within range.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[DonIago]

Since Our Heroes never did establish communication with the CE thanks to Marr's intervention, we can't say how intelligent it might have been or how willing it might have been to change its habits. I think it's more true to the UFP's ideals to ask questions first and destroy the CE only if necessary. Developing defenses and attacks obviously isn't a bad idea in the meantime, but as a last resort. The way I read your post is that the CE is little better than the Cardassians, a hostile entity that's fully aware of what it's doing, or possibly the DDM, a (somewhat presumed) automated weapon where there's no options for negotiation. I think of it more akin to Nomad or the Whale Probe or Vejur, an entity at least possibly unaware that the actions it's taking are having adverse consequences. Whether it would care were it to find out is an open question, but it should at least be given the option to change its behavior first.

 

[Kevman7987]

The CE and its destruction reminded me of the Giant Space Amoeba. We're not all sitting here wishing Kirk and crew hadn't blown that thing to smithereens. The Federation allowing its colonists to be eaten by these things just so they can study them and maybe learn to communicate with them is monstrous.

 

[DonIago]

At the time the E-D attempted to communicate with the CE nobody was in jeopardy, and as we saw, destroying it was ridiculousy easy to do. That wasn't self-defense, that was murder.

 

[Timo]

The way I read your post is that the CE is little better than the Cardassians, a hostile entity that's fully aware of what it's doing, or possibly the DDM, a (somewhat presumed) automated weapon where there's no options for negotiation.

I chose the Cardassians over, say, Vulcans or the Q solely because they share one important quality with the CE: a glass jaw.

That is, any discussion partner is inherently unreliable: if their lips are moving, odds are that they are lying. To establish a rapport with the CE, our heroes would need to see beyond words, just as with any discussion partner. But the CE is easily destroyed when need be, just like those pushover Cardassian wimpships (even if it has none of the malice characteristic of the Cardassian Union). This results in a certain balance of negotiations, a certain range of choices available to our heroes that would not be there in negotiations with Klingons or Organians. And therefore perhaps also in a temptation to use the communications in the simplest and most efficient way possible, as a trap to facilitate the extinction of the species, but that's far from said.

TImo Saloniemi

 

[Timo]

At the time the E-D attempted to communicate with the CE nobody was in jeopardy, and as we saw, destroying it was ridiculousy easy to do. That wasn't self-defense, that was murder.

There are plenty of scenarios where something that is no threat to you is a grave threat to others. Soldiers often kill enemies who are no threat to them personally - the gunner of an IFV, protected by armor, is absolutely required to machine-gun helpless infantrymen lest they kill the equally helpless infantrymen of the gunner's colors. Yet it may well be impossible for the gunner to take those infantrymen prisoner or even demand their ceasing and desisting.

What if the CE tried to run away? Picard, too, would easily have been cornered into killing the creature in many a scenario. Marr could easily plead extended self-defense in light of that.

Timo Saloniemi