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Signing up to Starfleet means you're forever alone?

We know Starfleet also has primarily science-focused vessels so they'd be rather safe for families.
That's debateable, being safe for families that is. Just look at how often Miranda class or Oberth class wrecks were found throughout TNG alone, many of which were on science missions when they had their fateful incidents.
I'm trying to remember if the Ent E has families on board? I seem to remember reading that it did (probably from one of the novels), and trying to figure out how they'd react during First Contact...
Based on the three movies, I see nothing to indicate there were families aboard the Enterprise E. In the novels, Picard and Beverly do have their son with them on the ship, but IIRC there's no mention to other children aboard.
 
Friendships could certainly be maintained by subspace, and perhaps in the era of holocommunicators even something more (there's an explanation for that tech I hadn't thought of before. Hmm.)
Like.

That's debateable, being safe for families that is. Just look at how often Miranda class or Oberth class wrecks were found throughout TNG alone, many of which were on science missions when they had their fateful incidents.
It's a large galaxy, err, quadrant. Even with many cases of disasters, in aggregate it could be very safe.
 
I'd be curious to see a comparison between the number of times we see wrecked ships (wars notwithstanding) and the number of times we see planets in jeopardy.

If being on Earth isn't necessarily any safer than being on the E-D, I'd rather be with my family on the ship.
 
I guess the question is how rare it really is for starships to carry family members, too. I suppose we only get a very limited view of what starships do because the Enterprise is the flagship that gets sent to dangerous missions, too. We know Starfleet also has primarily science-focused vessels so they'd be rather safe for families. And the Enterprise itself did lots of science stuff, too. This is going to sound weird but in "in the real world" I doubt the flagship would be in mortal danger every week.
The 'flagship' thing is largely fanon, anyway, and you're right, the only reason a ship would be in mortal danger that often is if it happened to be the focus of a dramatic TV show ;) In a 'real' Starfleet, I think it would be unlikely that the families on board ship would be in that great a danger. I've said it before but I still think it was criminally negligent of all the Starfleet commanders at Wolf 359 not to drop off their civilians and non essential personnel before meeting the Borg - they certainly had enough lead-in time to reach the nearest habitable planet - and avoid things like Jennifer Sisko from happening.
This was also of course the in universe explanation for saucer separation - the families would Foxtrot Oscar in the saucer section while the Stardrive turned to face the danger.
 
The 'flagship' thing is largely fanon, anyway, and you're right, the only reason a ship would be in mortal danger that often is if it happened to be the focus of a dramatic TV show ;) In a 'real' Starfleet, I think it would be unlikely that the families on board ship would be in that great a danger. I've said it before but I still think it was criminally negligent of all the Starfleet commanders at Wolf 359 not to drop off their civilians and non essential personnel before meeting the Borg - they certainly had enough lead-in time to reach the nearest habitable planet - and avoid things like Jennifer Sisko from happening.
This was also of course the in universe explanation for saucer separation - the families would Foxtrot Oscar in the saucer section while the Stardrive turned to face the danger.
Or if they can't go out of their way and have no other option, just drop their saucers and boogie to Wolf 359.
 
That might just be the most useful use of holodeck technology I've ever heard of!

I also thought it was really cool until the programmer in me took over and realized the problems of transmitting that much data over such distances would make the experience worse than the days of dial-up modems.
 
Or if they can't go out of their way and have no other option, just drop their saucers and boogie to Wolf 359.
Even escape pods would be preferable to taking those kids into a probably suicidal battle with the Borg.

The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the (relatively speaking) few?
My least favourtie thing Star Trek ever came up with, that. (OK, other than Warp 10 salamanders.) It's presented in the movies as so noble and self sacrificing, but it is a pretty scary philosophy if you think about it. The logical conclusion is that morality is a matter of numbers.
 
My least favourtie thing Star Trek ever came up with, that. (OK, other than Warp 10 salamanders.) It's presented in the movies as so noble and self sacrificing, but it is a pretty scary philosophy if you think about it. The logical conclusion is that morality is a matter of numbers.
Spock only applies it in a situation where he's willing to be the first, and only one, to sacrifice. That's something that's often overlooked in discussions about it.
 
I agree Star Trek is unrealistic when it comes to relationships. Real life armed forces and explorers get married, have kids, stay married or get divorced, have affairs etc. None of the Starfleet main crew seem to do this. I found it rather pathetic the Gang of Six from TOS, except for Bones who was divorced but stayed single, spent their fertile, adult years following Kirk around. Might make for entertaining TV, but in universe very pathetic IMO.
Maybe in future human females can remain fertile to their 60's or keeping ones eggs in stasis is the norm for career woman.
 
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It's not a problem, they signed the waiver.
Starfleet recruiting officer 'You and your offspring and pets might be either blown up by Cardassians, kidnapped by Orions, assimilated by the Borg, be the butt of the joke for Omnipotent beings, or even lost in another quadrant 100,000 light years away'
'Yeah honey I'll sign up for that, sounds like fun'! :whistle:
 
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Even escape pods would be preferable to taking those kids into a probably suicidal battle with the Borg.


My least favourtie thing Star Trek ever came up with, that. (OK, other than Warp 10 salamanders.) It's presented in the movies as so noble and self sacrificing, but it is a pretty scary philosophy if you think about it. The logical conclusion is that morality is a matter of numbers.
ITA its completely ruthless, and illogical, Surak must have been on the chocolate sauce.
 
Even escape pods would be preferable to taking those kids into a probably suicidal battle with the Borg.


My least favourtie thing Star Trek ever came up with, that. (OK, other than Warp 10 salamanders.) It's presented in the movies as so noble and self sacrificing, but it is a pretty scary philosophy if you think about it. The logical conclusion is that morality is a matter of numbers.

It continues to be noble so long as the few (or the one) are the one(s) making the decision....
 
One of the things that have always bothered me about Star Trek is the way relationships and families are portrayed. Most characters we meet in Trek are eternal singles, we hardly see any long-term relationships. No partners, few children. And these are people in their 30s to 50s in the Berman era.
Actually, this is an issue I have with TV shows in general. Most of the doctors, lawyers, police officers, and even military personnel I know all have families they go back home to at the end of the day. And amongst the engineers at work, it's an extreme rarity for someone outside their 20s to be single. So yeah, it kinda takes me out of it when hardly anyone in a main cast (Star Trek or otherwise) has a happy and healthy family life outside of work.
 
Data-Two "brothers"
It might seem odd, but if we're operating on the idea that the other androids built by his maker are Data' siblings, then that means his "mom", Juliana, is actually his "sister", too.
If being on Earth isn't necessarily any safer than being on the E-D, I'd rather be with my family on the ship.
You can't flee danger at high warp speeds when you're on a planet. ;)
I also thought it was really cool until the programmer in me took over and realized the problems of transmitting that much data over such distances would make the experience worse than the days of dial-up modems.
For full real-time rendering of every detail, then yes, probably. But if the idea was only to update appearance and try to incorporate certain details to allow for coordination that means that the participants might not have a perfectly synchronized experience, but it still might be preferable to couples or poly groups than the idea that their partners are having at it with impersonal holograms (or other people), then it seems workable.
Spock only applies it in a situation where he's willing to be the first, and only one, to sacrifice. That's something that's often overlooked in discussions about it.
Also, the rest of the crew immediately go and do something contrary to the idea - risking their lives and careers to recover Spock - and Kirk even points that out to Spock. So I've always taken the two together as a contrast meant for thought and discussion - not that one or the other is a law. The contrast is worth considering, especially when it comes to the upsides and downsides of how most of the Western world views the matter (prioritizing the needs and rights of the one) vs the way the Eastern world does (prioritizing the many, or the state, over the individual). Neither is entirely right, and neither is entirely wrong. Fascinating. ;)
I agree Star Trek is unrealistic when it comes to relationships. Real life armed forces and explorers get married, have kids, stay married or get divorced, have affairs etc. None of the Starfleet main crew seem to do this. I found it rather pathetic the Gang of Six from TOS, except for Bones who was divorced but stayed single, spent their fertile, adult years following Kirk around. Might make for entertaining TV, but in universe very pathetic IMO.
Maybe in future human females can remain fertile to their 60's or keeping ones eggs in stasis is the norm for career woman.
Or, perhaps by then, with a galactic human population in/approaching the trillions, people have moved past the idea that breeding is necessarily an essential part of life for absolutely everyone?
ITA its completely ruthless, and illogical, Surak must have been on the chocolate sauce.
In context in Surak's writings and teachings, it may have made more sense. I believe he was trying to rein in selfish decision makers who had brought Vulcan to the brink of annihilation. Perhaps sometimes the needs of the One *should* outweigh the needs of the many - generally, when it comes to respecting basic rights, for example. But if your "need" is revenge or based in greed, then knowing that you should allow the actual needs of the people who would be harmed by that to take priority is essential - a lesson many of our contemporaries could do to absorb, I think.
 
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