Shuttle by piggyback question

[Ar-Pharazon]

With the Endeavour finally going home via 747, I wondered, if there's any kind of problem with the jet, can the shuttle detach and glide down (ala Enterprise in 1977)?
Would they have a pilot in the shuttle or could they do it by remote?
Would the route be planned so as to have somewhere to land the shuttle?
Or would the shuttle be boned?

 

[Brent]

I'm thinking the shuttle would just crash

There isn't any fuel left on the thing, and it doesn't really glide that well

 

[Crazy_Uncle]

If I remember correctly, I don't remember the source right off hand, the shuttle is powered down for the flight. Because of that there is no power to the avionics that control the shuttle as it glides in for a landing. It also has no autopilot beyond the fly-by-wire controls that help the pilots so it can't land by itself. If the 747 were to encounter any problems the shuttle would be lost as well as the 747.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com is a great resource for shuttle and space related questions like yours. You should check it out.

Cheers

 

[Timo]

They should really have ordered from Drax Industries.

Was there ever a serious plan on installing turbojets or turbofans on the operational shuttles, or was that just for the glide test article? I mean, the plans existed for numerous earlier designs, but at which point was the idea dropped from the eventual STS orbiter design?

Also, what was the role of the turbofans on the Buran? Just atmospheric tests? Or a self-ferry capacity?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[diankra]

They should really have ordered from Drax Industries.

Was there ever a serious plan on installing turbojets or turbofans on the operational shuttles, or was that just for the glide test article? I mean, the plans existed for numerous earlier designs, but at which point was the idea dropped from the eventual STS orbiter design?

Also, what was the role of the turbofans on the Buran? Just atmospheric tests? Or a self-ferry capacity?

Timo Saloniemi

Early design studies included jet engines for powered atmospheric flight after re-entry, but they were dropped due to weight and cost issues very early on, possibly even before the shift from a reusable booster stage to SRB&ET, if I recall correctly.
For quite some time the idea of an 'add-on' jet engine pack which would be fitted so shuttles could ferry themselves across the country, and then removed on arrival at KSC, remained on the agenda, but again, cost and weight did for that.

Edit: I don't have my copy anywhere I can get at to check easily right now, but Space Shuttle: The First 100 Missions by Dennis R Jenkins has extensive material on the early design studies, including full details of the air-engine designs.
http://www.amazon.com/Space-Shuttle...=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1228998933&sr=1-2

 

[Dayton3]

The Soviet shuttle test vehicle had four turbofan engines on the back to take it from runway to test altitude where upon it then glided to Earth.

Answer to the original question.

The Shuttle orbiter would be lost.

Incidentally, the orbiters don't even glide that well. Pilots used to describe them as "flying bricks".

 

[Alpha_Geek]

If I remember correctly, I don't remember the source right off hand, the shuttle is powered down for the flight. Because of that there is no power to the avionics that control the shuttle as it glides in for a landing. It also has no autopilot beyond the fly-by-wire controls that help the pilots so it can't land by itself. If the 747 were to encounter any problems the shuttle would be lost as well as the 747.

http://www.nasaspaceflight.com is a great resource for shuttle and space related questions like yours. You should check it out.

Cheers

You're right. There is nobody on board, and all control, environmental, and power generation systems are shut down. Further, the shuttle is bolted down.

As to the Russian Buran orbiter and jet engines... if you google around a bit you'll find footage of one of their test flights. Since Buran looks very similar to the US shuttle, seeing that thing taking off from a runway sets my hackles up every time I see it. IT AIN'T NATURAL, MR. FRODO!

 

[Squiggy]

As mentioned above...no. Ignoring the fact it's secured to the 747, it isn't powered up. So if it were to detatch it would quickly fall like a rock as it's only meant to glide very fast and the "ferry" is only going 200 knots or so.

It's a brick.

 

[Ar-Pharazon]

So it's quite a lot heavier than Enterprise was? I know Enterprise didn't have engines/motors at the rear and those are probably a lot of weight in comparison.

 

[diankra]

So it's quite a lot heavier than Enterprise was? I know Enterprise didn't have engines/motors at the rear and those are probably a lot of weight in comparison.

Enterprise had dummy engines weighted to match a 'real' orbiter - the approach and landing tests wouldn't have been an accurate test of whether an operational shuttle could land if Enterprise hadn't ben a good match in terms of aerodynamics and weighting.

 

[Thurisaz]

I read that NASA may start using the Buran, which is good because it is superior to ours.

 

[Plecostomus]

I thought the Buran was stripped of all its technology and parked in a Moscow suburb where it serves as a whorehouse/novelty diner.

Edit: Nope, it was crushed when it's hanger collapsed.

 

[Alpha_Geek]

I read that NASA may start using the Buran, which is good because it is superior to ours.

One of the orbiters was destroyed in a hangar collapse early this decade, and the Energia booster that would loft the orbiter has been discontinued.

Buran will not be replacing the STS.


AG

 

[Squiggy]

I read that NASA may start using the Buran, which is good because it is superior to ours.

No.

 

[Forbin]

Isn't one of Buran test articles a playground now?

 

[Squiggy]

Yes...where it is a superior jungle gym to the shuttle.

 

[SeerSGB]

Isn't one of Buran test articles a playground now?

Several shuttles were produced. One of those, the OK-GLI, was modified to fly with jet engines for aerodynamic testing. One painted mock shuttle (the former static test-article OK-TVA) is now a ride simulating space flight in Gorky Park, Moscow. The OK-GLI was sold by its owner NPO Energia, shipped to Sydney in Australia and subsequently displayed at the Sydney Olympics in 2000. Shortly after, the new owner went bankrupt and the OK-GLI shuttle then went to Bahrain for a number of years while legal ownership status was in dispute. The Sydney/Bahrain (OK-GLI) shuttle was acquired by the German Technikmuseum Speyer in 2004,[2] and has been transported to the museum, where it is exhibited to the general public.

Wiki link

I'm surprised that one of them hasn't ended up some rich kid's backyard jungle gym; considering how eager the Russians were/are to sell out their space program to tourists and the general fact that a Buran would probably fetch them a pretty nickle.