They used to be canon.
Shows that should have been better
- Thread starter bigdaddy
- Start date
As a prequel, Gotham has gone so off the rails, I don't even want them to try to fix it anymore. I want them to embrace it. It needs to go full scale Batman and Robin..... with GORDON as Batman and Bruce training as his side kick! Bruce can still come up with the bat/fear/psychological profile angle, and he can still have Lucius build cool gadgets, but the vigilante needs to be Gordon in a black tactical suit of some sort. He's no longer a cop, but has the connections thru Harvey. They are well on their way to a total reimagining and should just totally go for it at this point. I haven't watched the premiere yet, and I doubt they will do it, but that is my wish, anyways. It would even give some parallels to Bruce being hard on his trainees, because he will have come up the ranks in the same exact way.
What an easy to derail thread...
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Heroes season 2 was weak but salvageable. Season 3 is where it really ran off the rails. Where no character had the same goal for more than two episodes in a row and people were evil...no good...no evil...NO, GOOD!
We are in complete agreement. I like the new Flash alot. For a current show that's saying something.
Gotham on the other hand.....well, it's about what you'd expect from current television. I wanted to like it but there's just something off putting about it. Of course, if they killed off that insipid Fish woman that alone would be an improvement.
Season 3A was a complete disaster. They obviously had no plan (should have just finished Season 2, but I remember reading that they didn't want people to have to remember what happened 9 months ago and wanted to start fresh.) They plot was moving at such an insane pace you couldn't figure out what was going on. The "alternate futures" presented in the season seemed to contradict each other completely. The escaped prisoners from the premiere were forgotten almost instantly. The Sylar as a Petrelli storyline was a total misdirect. They turned Angela into a monster, yet used it to try to reform Sylar. They barely dealt with the fact that his new "touch everything and know its history" power would be the biggest psychological tool changing him. They tried to give him a crutch, that his power was like a drug addiction that would drive anyone mad, which is why Peter flipped when he got the ability. Totally inconsistant on which powers were retained from Season 1+2. Not knowing how to write mega powerful characters led to Peter's and Hiro's neutering by Arthur, and neither character was quite the same again. Mohinder didn't need to go all "The Fly" on anyone. Adam was wasted and died in a completely nonsensical way. Tracy was a nonsensical mystery that went nowhere. S3b was much tighter and improved, but still derailed itself halfway through with a plotline rewrite, completely wasting everything they were doing with "Samson Grey" because they didn't want to redo the father plotline that they had just wasted and done wrong with Arthur Petrelli, rather then using it to draw together themes and parallels. By the end of the season they were just rehashing the Sylar / Nathan Presidential stuff from late S1, but it was at least *watchable* again. One Power Peter was boring, and they *absolutely* ruined what could have been an awesome mystery / reveal for S4 by letting us all see Sylar becoming Nathan, rather then letting us figure it out with "Nathan" next season for a shocking reveal.
Fringe.
Started off strong exploring weird and wonderful quasi-science, but after the parallel universe conflict became the main focus it lost its way. S4 saw a brief return to the original premise (even with confusing alternate timelines) but S5 was a serious let down. Damn you Abrams!
Started off strong exploring weird and wonderful quasi-science, but after the parallel universe conflict became the main focus it lost its way. S4 saw a brief return to the original premise (even with confusing alternate timelines) but S5 was a serious let down. Damn you Abrams!
I thought the show really picked up with the alternate universe, and i thought season 5 was genius. That was one show that was not afraid to reimagine itself constantly, and it was awesome.
Seasons 4 and more so 5 were a horrible mess.
I was actually okay with the conflict with the parallel universe. But then it was dragged out, Spock became evil and the whole thing just felt like they had lost their plan.
Then season 5 made zero sense. These creatures who just watched as time went by suddenly thought now would be a good time to invade. They never explained why they invaded. In the final episode they go over the the parallel universe but never explain why that one wasn't invaded. I would have preferred if they were the ones wanting to destroy the two know universes and create a new one for themselves. I can't stand a 'bad guy' that has a weak or no excuse for being bad.
I was actually okay with the conflict with the parallel universe. But then it was dragged out, Spock became evil and the whole thing just felt like they had lost their plan.
Then season 5 made zero sense. These creatures who just watched as time went by suddenly thought now would be a good time to invade. They never explained why they invaded. In the final episode they go over the the parallel universe but never explain why that one wasn't invaded. I would have preferred if they were the ones wanting to destroy the two know universes and create a new one for themselves. I can't stand a 'bad guy' that has a weak or no excuse for being bad.
Wasted possibilities?
Journeyman
Now And Again
Enterprise
The first two never blossomed into what they could have been as if they just didn't know how to develop them. ENT was just completely counter to what it could have been. They took VOY and basically repackaged it and it was obvious and predictably bust.
Journeyman
Now And Again
Enterprise
The first two never blossomed into what they could have been as if they just didn't know how to develop them. ENT was just completely counter to what it could have been. They took VOY and basically repackaged it and it was obvious and predictably bust.
I think Journeyman was just a victim of the writer's strike that year. It seemed to be consistant and have a solid plan in mind from the beginning, anyways. Definitely have to check out Now and Again. Never heard of that one!
"Intelligence" was another one that tried at the enhanced human brain trope/computer implant, but I didn't finish watching it. "Second Chance" from not even a year ago, was actually pretty good, and pretty much finished its story line by the end. The premise is *very* similar to Now And Again. I enjoyed it.
Plus, he was way too much like Sherlock Holmes. Still, I watched every single episode. The flashbacks and slow reveal mythology of the show was way more intriguing then the procedural elements, but all the characters had wonderful chemistry.
One I haven't seen mentioned: Earth: Final Conflict. It had some good stuff going for it and potential until they screwed around with securing the lead actor to a contract to continue on the series and lost him - and ended up with space vampires somehow.
I'd also second Andromeda. There were a lot of cool concepts there, but unfortunately the writing wasn't for long.
I'd also second Andromeda. There were a lot of cool concepts there, but unfortunately the writing wasn't for long.
There's nothing wrong with Star Trek Voyager that isn't just nitpicking.
Star Trek Enterprise started out fine, but lost its way, IMO, when it tried to change itself into a hybrid show in the same vein as Voyager, which just didn't work.
I'm going to give Smallville as my answer. The show's premise was great, but it lasted 6 seasons too long and got so far 'into the weeds' that it became about everything OTHER than Clark Kent and his journey to being Superman.
Star Trek Enterprise started out fine, but lost its way, IMO, when it tried to change itself into a hybrid show in the same vein as Voyager, which just didn't work.
I'm going to give Smallville as my answer. The show's premise was great, but it lasted 6 seasons too long and got so far 'into the weeds' that it became about everything OTHER than Clark Kent and his journey to being Superman.
I'm not going to go down this flame war, but are we watching the same show?
Bad acting. Bad writing. Bad characters. Not plot advancing. They never ran out of supplies, the ship always looked nice and neat. They should have just made it TNG 2 and ditched the whole 'Lost in Space" bullshit if they were never going to actually do anything with it.
But yeah, just nitpicking.
Yes, I consider those criticisms to be nitpicking - especially the complaints about the condition of the ship and the endless supply of resources - because they don't actually affect the quality of the seties unless you, as an audience member, let them.
I also vehemently disagree with you when it comes to the characters and the progression of plot, especially if you reject the order in which the episodes were broadcast and watch things in their proper and intended chronological order, which turns the series from "TNG Lite" into a "Serialized Procedural" (ALA Fringe) that takes the serialized nature of DS9 and mixes it with the episodic nature of TOS and TNG and does so successfully.
Voyager is my second-favorite Star Trek series behind Deep Space Nine, and became so after I sat down and watched it in proper order and was able to see and recognize exactly what they were going for.
They didn't execute things completely perfectly and made some decisions that I myself would not have made, but they suceeded far more than they failed.
I also vehemently disagree with you when it comes to the characters and the progression of plot, especially if you reject the order in which the episodes were broadcast and watch things in their proper and intended chronological order, which turns the series from "TNG Lite" into a "Serialized Procedural" (ALA Fringe) that takes the serialized nature of DS9 and mixes it with the episodic nature of TOS and TNG and does so successfully.
Voyager is my second-favorite Star Trek series behind Deep Space Nine, and became so after I sat down and watched it in proper order and was able to see and recognize exactly what they were going for.
They didn't execute things completely perfectly and made some decisions that I myself would not have made, but they suceeded far more than they failed.
