Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans?

[Gotham Central]

Very few Vulcans must make a career out of Starfleet, otherwise how would you explain that they do not dominate the starfleet heirarchy?

Species with long lifespans have a distinct advantage over humans. They can enlist at 18 and then spend the century or so rising through the ranks. Thus they should be over represented in the command structure. Hell T'pol should still be alive (and concieveably in Starfleet) when Kirk begins hist five year mission.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

Depends--do all species with long lifespans (to include Vulcans) believe in having one career in their lifetimes, or two or three instead?

Given the emergence of the viable second career in human society these days, that's something I find myself wondering.

At least in my own fanfic...

Spoiler: Sigils and Unions fanfic

...Cardassians are longer-lived than humans, though not to the extent of Vulcans, and most people have two full careers in their lifetime (though not necessarily some very senior guls, and the legates), AND an enjoyable retirement period. This is, incidentally, one of the thing that makes the draft more livable for people, too.

 

[neozeks]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

Very few Vulcans must make a career out of Starfleet, otherwise how would you explain that they do not dominate the starfleet heirarchy?

Species with long lifespans have a distinct advantage over humans. They can enlist at 18 and then spend the century or so rising through the ranks. Thus they should be over represented in the command structure. Hell T'pol should still be alive (and concieveably in Starfleet) when Kirk begins hist five year mission.

Maybe Vulcans come of age and can enter the Academy at a later time than humans. Or there is a maximum number of years one can spend in Starfleet before retirement and it's based around species with shorter lifespans like humans, just to even out the balance.

 

[Timo]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

I'd argue that the limitations would be on how long an officer is allowed to serve at flag rank. A Vulcan may make it to Admiral more often than other species, and may serve in Starfleet for longer than other species, too - but Admirals are such an important organizational influence within Starfleet that there are strict regulations on how many of those there can be in service, what positions they can hold, and how long a person may serve at flag rank.

It's a bit like that in today's navies, too. You don't automatically end up at flag rank at the conclusion of a long and successful career. You only get that rank and position if there's an opening there for you. Often, there's a limitation on how long you can hold a specific office. And then you have a fixed retirement age. So Vulcans or other long-lived species would hold no special advantage there; they'd come, but they'd also go.

Whether Starfleet would have the same retirement age for humans and Vulcans is unclear. Certainly they shouldn't have the same retirement age for Ocampa... But it may well be that Starfleet manages to keep its personnel fairly evenly "speciesed out" without actually resorting to species-specific quotas, simply by enforcing rules on the length of time one can spend at a specific top-level job.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[barnaclelapse]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

That would make sense.

Still, the ideal of Starfleet is to have various ideologies, viewpoints, talents and so on coming together under a common goal. I realize it hasn't always come across like that, but that seems to be the general selling point.

 

[StarTrekker]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

I agree, if Starfleet were real I can see a lot more Vulcans in the higher ranks.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

Sorry but I disagree, a lot of times we see vulcans making some seriously stupid decisions. It's very possible that they're not as smart as we give them credit for.

 

[Vulcan Princess]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

Sorry but I disagree, a lot of times we see vulcans making some seriously stupid decisions. It's very possible that they're not as smart as we give them credit for.

I think they're as smart as we give them credit for, but their culture causes many of them to lack the people skills necessary for command. We saw that with Spock in Galileo Seven, and with Tuvok in both Learning Curve and Resolutions. They're competent, but they have trouble understanding the holistic/emotional needs of the crew.

 

[FormerLurker]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

That's the difference between being intelligent, and being smart, with intelligence being potential, and smartness being usage. All Vulcans are intelligent, but when dealing with the issues present in mixed-culture societies, they are seldom smart.

 

[T'Girl]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

Galileo Seven is a good example, Spock semi-locked up when he did all the right things, "...and yet two men have died." At the very least it seem that he was confused by events.

 

[Sector 7]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

That's the difference between being intelligent, and being smart, with intelligence being potential, and smartness being usage. All Vulcans are intelligent, but when dealing with the issues present in mixed-culture societies, they are seldom smart.

Galileo Seven is a good example, Spock semi-locked up when he did all the right things, "...and yet two men have died." At the very least it seem that he was confused by events.

Very good points from both of you.
... and the #1 reason few Vulcans become admirals...

Spoiler: #1 reason

they have an acute sense of smell and find the odor of humans repulsive!

 

[Kross]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

In the US Military, Generals and Admirals normally only serve a certain number of years before retiring, even before they hit the mandatory retirement age, because they don't want to block the way for junior officers (Lt. Colonels and Colonels) to reach stars.

 

[Arpy]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

We haven't seen more aliens overall because of budget and dumb fans who'll take that excuse to their grave, but here's a thought...

Maybe it takes a lot out of them to control their emotions dealing with so many peoples' lives and deaths. Or maybe it's just too damn tedious doing the same thing for so long...they need to serve in different ways. Or to live their final decades more remotely, less connected to the tumult of daily life of younger beings..."being productive" as we see it becomes garish and structure becomes stifling. They still live full productive lives, but on a different level. Would you still wake up at 6, have tuna-fish for lunch, and watch the evening news at the age of 3948324809?

 

[JarodRussell]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

Not by the JJTrek Vulcans anyway.

 

[Deckerd]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

I thought T'Pol was a competent second in command.

 

[The Badger]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

I think they're as smart as we give them credit for, but their culture causes many of them to lack the people skills necessary for command. We saw that with Spock in Galileo Seven, and with Tuvok in both Learning Curve and Resolutions. They're competent, but they have trouble understanding the holistic/emotional needs of the crew.

There is (no pun intended) some logic in what you say. After all, Valeris in TUC was specifically referred to as the first Vulcan to graduate at the head of her class.

Clearly, Star Fleet values a wide range of abilities, not all of which are commonly displayed by Vulcans.

 

[AviTrek]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

Timo nailed it. The navy has mandatory promotion or retirement lengths for each position. If you serve X years at a position and don't get promoted you are forced to retire rather than keeping your current job until you get the promotion. Vulcans would have no advantage over humans in reaching flag ranks. And then once they reach a flag rank they would be forced into retirement just like humans, even if they have 100 good years left.

 

[Nerys Ghemor]

Re: Shouldn't all of the highest ranks in Starfleet be held by Vulcans

Timo nailed it. The navy has mandatory promotion or retirement lengths for each position. If you serve X years at a position and don't get promoted you are forced to retire rather than keeping your current job until you get the promotion. Vulcans would have no advantage over humans in reaching flag ranks. And then once they reach a flag rank they would be forced into retirement just like humans, even if they have 100 good years left.

And couple that with the "getting bored" thing and it may be that Vulcans have two or three productive careers in one lifetime unless they have a job with a LOT of room for growth and constantly changing situations, with Starfleet being only one of those careers--as per my prior post.