Should Tyler be charged with Dr. Culber's murder?

[Tuvix5675]

Saru's decision to not hold Tyler responsible for Dr. Culber's murder wouldn't hold up in the U.S. legal system. There are many people that kill that have diagnosed split personalities, yet still get charged. I think Saru might be overstepping his authority in making this decision, what do you guys think?

 

[Krandor]

Saru's decision to not hold Tyler responsible for Dr. Culber's murder wouldn't hold up in the U.S. legal system. There are many people that kill that have diagnosed split personalities, yet still get charged. I think Saru might be overstepping his authority in making this decision, what do you guys think?

In the US I think he would be changed and have to plead not guilty by mental defect.

IN DSC, we'll make him a senior officer on the most important ship in the fleet.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

Saru's decision to not hold Tyler responsible for Dr. Culber's murder wouldn't hold up in the U.S. legal system. There are many people that kill that have diagnosed split personalities, yet still get charged. I think Saru might be overstepping his authority in making this decision, what do you guys think?

US laws haven't caught up to inter-species reassignment, I guess.....

 

[XCV330]

He can't be charged. Federation science has a bit of an understanding of what happened to him. But he's not Ash Tyler either. He can't be a starfleet officer. If he stays in the UFP he's going to be monitored every minute of his life. His only real choice is to go Klingon. He needs a jolt of Dr Phlox's Patented Augment Medicinal Cure (also cures Klingon baldness!)

 

[Nyotarules]

yeah charge him! Send him to that mental hospital where Garth reigns!

 

[cultcross]

I see it as an example of 'not responsible'. The physical man that is Tyler committed the crime, but the whole person we now have did not. Voq would be culpable, and he is 'dead'.

 

[Krandor]

I see it as an example of 'not responsible'. The physical man that is Tyler committed the crime, but the whole person we now have did not. Voq would be culpable, and he is 'dead'.

Do we have proof voq is dead.

I’d say put him in a mental institution for that to be determined.

 

[cultcross]

A mind meld would probably do it.

*Paging Ambassador Sarek to the weepy former Klingon's room. Weepy Klingon's room, Ambassador Sarek.

 

[guyute03]

Yeah I don't know and now this question is in my head thanks for that.

I'm wondering why Starfleet Intelligence didn't snatch him away right quick to study him though.

 

[Spot261]

Are we going to charge Data for a mutiny committed whilst under alien influence? Are we going to charge Chekov with treason?

Dammit Picard's in the deep stuff.....

 

[bookworm8571]

It probably falls under a not guilty by reason of temporary insanity defense. It still isn’t clear exactly what the Klingons did to him, but he reads as physically and mentally human now. Voq was responsible and controlling his body when the crimes were committed.

 

[Wulf]

Let's check this at the other extreme.

If a klingon had read Tyler's diary, got a Tyler wig, got blackout drunk, then killed a dude, would they let him take Tyler's place because he wasn't responsible for his actions while being blackout drunk?

If they don't all sit around the table the next day telling him how much they all support him, how far between those two extremes do you have to go for that to change?

 

[Wulf]

To take this a little further, if he still looked physically Klingon but still had his mind overwritten with Tyler, does anybody think he'd get the same level of support?

What if he still looked like Tyler, had the same amount of Tyler in his head, but never had the Klingon part excised? Would that change anything, or would "Tyler" then be worthy of punishing for the murder?

I'm not suggesting answers, just throwing out questions.

 

[Relayer1]

I'm probably being slow here, or maybe I've missed something. Wasn't 'Ash' actually a surgically altered Klingon with false memories ?

Was there a real human Ash and what happened to him ?

 

[Longinus]

He absolutely should be charged. And then acquitted based temporal insanity.

Whether he is sane enough to be let freely wander around is another matter.

In any case, he is not really Ash Tyler and they absolutely cannot let him take his place.

 

[seigezunt]

I adore this show, but I do find this indeed the part of the most recent episode which stretched my credulity to the breaking point. How he is not being put into custody after Stamets beats him to a pulp is beyond me.

I'm probably being slow here, or maybe I've missed something. Wasn't 'Ash' actually a surgically altered Klingon with false memories ?

Was there a real human Ash and what happened to him ?

Indeed. I find some of the dialogue confusing because I'm under the assumption that there are or were remains deposited somewhere in the Klingon Empire that would have answered to Ash, and that this person walking around is some sort of amalgam that is largely Voq physically, with Ash's software overwriting his OS.

 

[cultcross]

How he is not being put into custody after Stamets beats him to a pulp is beyond me.

Same reason Picard wasn't imprisoned after Wolf 359. Not in charge of his actions.

 

[Longinus]

I'm probably being slow here, or maybe I've missed something. Wasn't 'Ash' actually a surgically altered Klingon with false memories ?

Yes.

Was there a real human Ash and what happened to him ?

Yes there was. Klingons killed him and Voq literally wore his skin. But apparently Disco folks are OK with this and willing to pretend that this brainwashed murderous Klingon is actually the person in whose murder he participated in and whose skin he stole. I wonder how the people who actually knew the real Tyler would feel...

 

[Lord Garth]

All I can think of is the episode "Dax" when Jadzia Dax was on trial for something Curzon Dax was accused of (but ultimately didn't do). I think of AshVoq was fully mentally Voq when he killed Culber, then he shouldn't be charged if Voq has been expunged from his system.

If any Voq remains, then it becomes murkier.

If the Ash personality murdered Culber, then he should definitely be charged. It looks like there was at least some Voq in AshVoq when Culber was murdered... so it's either murky or Voq has to be mentally separated from Ash.

 

[seigezunt]

It's not simply "not in charge of his actions," though. This is an entirely different person than they assumed him to be. There's impersonating a Starfleet officer on top of all of this.