Should they bring back Janeway?

[Therin of Andor]

Yeah, but the poster who said it originally, said they were professionals, not not that they wrote professional quality stories, IMO there's a big difference.

IIRC, the OP called Pocket's authors "so-called 'professional' authors", which is why i got cranky in the first place. I felt that Tidus79001's use of inverted commas around the term "professional", in that post, was intended to suggest that Tidus79001 did not think highly of them.

it's not the root definition.

It's not equivalent to Tidus79001's original use, no. Hence the argument and all the back-pedaling from someone who says that he or she has read all VOY fiction, but prefers fanfic, and thus cannot recommend any licensed titles beyond "Echoes".

 

[JarodRussell]

just to play devil's advocate...is a physician who volunteers ALL their time not a professional then?​

So fanfic writers are exactly the same as professional writers, except they are volunteering their writing skills to needy fans? ​

How does a doctor who volunteers ALL of his time support himself? How does he eat and clothe himself?​

Well, I wouldn't compare a writer to a doctor... That's the different between an artistic job (writers, actors, painters, musicians, etc) and a - for the lack of a better word - "real" job (doctors, astronauts, truck drivers, police men, engineers, etc). The fact that you can become a professional writer by starting out as a fanfic writer is evidence for that. Nobody starts out as a hobby doctor and then happens to be recognized by a professional doctor and then gets the foot in the door.

The fact that your work gets officially published doesn't automatically mean your work is better than of someone who writes for fun but never gets paid for it.

 

[seigezunt]

Sure, I'll give that something self-published might be great, and something published by PB might be awful. But in general your odds are better of something being readable and enjoyable if it's been vetted by a publisher, and written by someone who's not just answering to their online fans, but someone who's giving them a check and providing some quality control.

I've worked in the print media and publishing realm with professional writers and editors, and I've attended plenty of workshops with unpublished writers, and I'd rather be reading what's produced by the former.

Not trying to slight fanfic -- i think it's where Treklit came from, and Treklit owes a debt -- but it's just not the same animal.

 

[Dark Gilligan]

So it begs the question of professional quality versus the textbook definition of professional.

There's no question to beg. "Professional quality" is a completely subjective term. Everyone will have a different definition of it based solely on his own opinion. "Professional = Paid Real Money" is not subjective. It's a legal transaction between writer and publisher. Being self-published doesn't count. Being paid in contributor copies doesn't count. Being paid with the virtues of experience and exposure doesn't count. Being a fanfic writer on an internet board doesn't count. Seems pretty clear to me. The pro authors association Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America (SFWA) state the definition quite nicely. Check it out.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Plus, if you've made even one little professional sale, you get to have the word "writer" under your name and all the respect (?) that comes with it.

Fanficcers don't get that.

They do get a living Janeway boinking Chakotay, though.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Plus, if you've made even one little professional sale, you get to have the word "writer" under your name and all the respect (?) that comes with it.

Fanficcers don't get that.

They do get a living Janeway boinking Chakotay, though.

The next time you feel like whipping your dick out please piss down your leg and not on me.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^I'm sorry, what?

 

[Ferd Burfel]

So it begs the question of professional quality versus the textbook definition of professional.

There's no question to beg. "Professional quality" is a completely subjective term. Everyone will have a different definition of it based solely on his own opinion. "Professional = Paid Real Money" is not subjective. It's a legal transaction between writer and publisher. Being self-published doesn't count. Being paid in contributor copies doesn't count. Being paid with the virtues of experience and exposure doesn't count. Being a fanfic writer on an internet board doesn't count. Seems pretty clear to me. The pro authors association Science Fiction and Fantasy Writers of America (SFWA) state the definition quite nicely. Check it out.

Alright dude. You're right. I'm guessing that is what you want to hear, otherwise this wouldn't be the deal its been made. So for the sake of putting it to bed, you're right.

 

[Ferd Burfel]

Plus, if you've made even one little professional sale, you get to have the word "writer" under your name and all the respect (?) that comes with it.

Fanficcers don't get that.

They do get a living Janeway boinking Chakotay, though.

The next time you feel like whipping your dick out please piss down your leg and not on me.

I don't think he was insulting you. I think he was saying that even making one sale makes you professional. And that makes you different and "better" than anyone who merely writes fanfic. When i first read what he wrote (King Daniel) I reactor the same way as you Kirk. But again, I don't think he was insulting you.

 

[JWolf]

Can some kind Moderator please close this thread. We don't need yet another Janeway is dead type thread. Please help us.

 

[LightningStorm]

The next time you feel like whipping your dick out please piss down your leg and not on me.

That was unnecessary, let's dial it back a bit please.

Can some kind Moderator please close this thread. We don't need yet another Janeway is dead type thread. Please help us.

No. You do have the option to not read these threads if they bother you so much.

 

[seigezunt]

This thread should be pinned.





Through Janeway's back, like a great big Patricia Neal-ish bug.

 

[Shane Houston]

If I remember correctly, wasn't Margaret Clark one of the same editors who threw a fit over how Trip Tucker died on Enterprise? Didn't she feel that the death was so mishandled that they had to make over the entire Enterprise novel line to explain away the bad writing choices made by the producers of the show? And to make Tucker live again?

And then the editor's (same one's who cried out against Tucker's death and the way it was handled) had the nerve to do the same thing to the character of Kathryn Janeway? And if it is just my opinion then I would like to hear one of the Trek authors who post here tell me that they liked the way it was handled because to me, it's rubbish. Janeway's death was so far beyond bad writing that to me the series finale of Enterprise was 10 times better. My question is who's going to work around the sloppy writing of the Before Dishonor and fix the damage that the writer and editors did to Kathryn Janeway?

Full Circle and Unworthy were great books that I've re-read over and over again. If there was going to be a death for Janeway I wish to God that Kristen Bayer had written it. For me she's to Voyager that S.D Perry was to DS9. An excellent writer who got the new relaunch series going.

Hell yeah bring Janeway back! Bring her back like Tucker was brought back. No wonder the fans of Voyager and Janeway feel the way they do.

 

[elaithin]

The difference, I think, is that Trip's death in the series was completely random, completely stupid, and done merely for sensationalism. Janeway, on the other hand, went out fighting the Borg - a much more fitting fate for her.

You can disagree on whether or not Before Dishonor was good (The only thing I actually disliked about the book was the mutiny subplot, but then I'm an unabashed Peter David fan); but I think 'These Are The Voyages' was pretty universally reviled.

 

[captcalhoun]

Can some kind Moderator please close this thread. We don't need yet another Janeway is dead type thread. Please help us.

you're 46 pages too late.

 

[Ferd Burfel]

...And then the editor's (same one's who cried out against Tucker's death and the way it was handled) had the nerve to do the same thing to the character of Kathryn Janeway? And if it is just my opinion then I would like to hear one of the Trek authors who post here tell me that they liked the way it was handled because to me, it's rubbish. Janeway's death was so far beyond bad writing that to me the series finale of Enterprise was 10 times better. My question is who's going to work around the sloppy writing of the Before Dishonor and fix the damage that the writer and editors did to Kathryn Janeway?

I gotta say that I agree with almost all of this. I think the writing of this particular book and the Janeway thing in general was terrible. Just horrendous. Yet the community seems to simply dislike Janeway so much that they'll let it slide.

And for those of you who are tired of the thread, you don't have to click it or enter it. Some, like me, didn't sound off the last time. Others might be new to the forum. So when you make comments to close the thread or question it's existence you're no better than the "militant Janeway" fans you claim to dislike and wish to quit posting.

 

[Scout101]

Think it's more that they like the storylines that have come out of the death, so will let it slide. Keep sticking to what you want to hear, though....

 

[Defcon]

And then there are those who actually liked Before Dishonor, and are deeply annoyed by comments about how badly written it is by people who are just annoyed that Janeway was offed and in some cases haven't even read the damn book.

 

[elaithin]

^This. I really think the only bad part of the book was the mutiny. And honestly, that wouldn't have even been bad if it weren't for the fact that the characterizations for the new members of the crew were just wildly different than the previous book. I don't know what the story there is, but that seems like simple miscommunication between authors to me.

 

[Scout101]

What if everyone compromised? They could bring back Janeway, and then kill her in a better way. Fans of Janeway get her in another story with the crew, people that just didn't like the book she was killed in (or how she died) get another shot at it, people that like the stories as-is, with Janeway dead, still get that, and people that just really hate Janeway get to watch her die again.

Work for everyone?