Should they bring back Janeway?

[AuntKate]

*voted Keep 'er dead.*

The MJFs boggle my mind... they don't just want Janeway back, but re-set to the end of Voyager? What about character development? What about everyone else on the crew?

She isn't dead. Anyway, what's wrong with having novels set during the series? Or just after? Do all novels have to fit into this rather unpopular Relaunch? There have been TOS novels set during its first run for decades. Nobody said anything about "reset" to the end of the series. And the character development can continue when Janeway returns from her vacation with the Q. I wonder what she's up to . . . don't you?

 

[RonG]

Captain's Table: Fire Ship is outstanding; in my opinion, the definitive Janeway story. And I like Infinity's Prism: Places Of Exile a lot, but a lot of Janeway fans (including, actually, Kirsten Beyer) aren't fans of Janeway's portrayal there, so that recommendation is a little more hedged.

In general, numerically or quality-wise, it's hard to argue against the fact that Voyager's gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to novels. It's hard to think of very many good Voyager novels period, much less Janeway ones. Voyager's prior relaunch didn't hold a candle to really any of the other ongoing serialized narratives, Voyager's numbered books are almost universally lame, Voyager's entries in all of Ordover's crossover series (with the Captain's Table exception) tended to be the worst of the bunch, and even String Theory began brilliantly but ended on a kind of sour note.

In fact, aside from Beyer's books, Fire Ship, Infinity's Prism, and the first String Theory entry, I can't think of any Voyager books I've liked very much. I haven't read Mosaic or Pathways, though.

Thanks, Thrawn. These actually mirror my own experience - that's why I wanted some of the Janeway fans to give me recommendations on some novels that demonstrate the character traits that had made them such loyal and vocal fans...

So far, other than kimc's one novel and one short story, they didn't respond..

Originally, I had thought that the MJF's stayed away from the novels, until I read here that one fan regarded VOY novels as "their" novels - meaning that fan surely read *one* of "their" novels, no?...

I didn't respond because I agreed with KimC (surprise!) and Thrawn. Since I had nothing to add, I kept my peace.

actually, it *is* a surprise, to me at least - I would expect that fans of a certain character, especially a major one like Janeway, would have more favorite (older) novels to cite, when engaging in a discussion about the so-called "low quality" of current / new novels...

what about recommendations from other notable Janeway fans, like Brit or Tidus79001?

AuntKate - what's wrong with novels set during the series, is that the MJF's are not even going to bother with them...

 

[AuntKate]

And it's great you enjoy it, whatever floats your boat. No one's begrudging you of that. But it was suggested that it should be read before bashed, so I thought 'what the hell...', gave it a try and posted my impressions. Which is more than can be said of some of the Janeway Crazies that have posted in this thread and others about Full Circle and Unworthy. If only they took your advice too.

I take it reading bits of it in the bookstore before tossing it back onto the shelf in disgust doesn't count? Oh well...

The thing is I own literally dozens of Pocket book titles - TOS & TNG as well as Voyager. I also read a variety of other types of literature. The fact is that FOR ME I used to read Trek books simply for fun. I'm interested in great adventures with characters I know and love. I'd like to see Janeway written as portrayed in the televised series - not the angry fanboy version of her that has been in novels like "Before Dishonor". I'd like to see her brought back without having her death, her relationship with Chakotay and other elements introduced by Beyer brushed under the carpet.

Well, that's what I'd like. I've long ago resigned myself the the fact that mine is not a demographic that media companies are interested in. Is that fair? No. Then again, life isn't fair so on we go...

I agree totally, KimC. The PB Janeway has been "off" for a long time. I like that phrase "fanboy Janeway"; it fits. Even in that "Distant Shores" anthology, I had issues with more than one portrayal of Janeway--although not with Beyer's.

Life isn't fair. However, if novels are about profit, maybe it is time to finally treat Voyager and Janeway fairly.

 

[Thrawn]

As I mentioned in my post, I do think you all have a point on this; the Voyager novels have, by and large, been seriously lacking. It has to be annoyingly ironic that, when an excellent author finally takes the helm, the most beloved and also most oft-maligned character is out of the picture.

Not that this helps any, because I know you're adverse to spending any money on it, but the first whole half of Full Circle after the prologue is a giant adventure that involves all the main crew before Janeway dies, and it was originally a separately commissioned novel entirely. (Marco Palmieri felt that, after Destiny, the next Voyager book should include the post-Destiny events to take advantage of the marketing push, so he asked Kirsten to condense two previously commissioned books into one.) So, there's a brilliant and perfectly characterized Janeway adventure inside that book for 250 pages or so that doesn't so much as mention her death. I think that if the books had been published separately, y'all would've really loved the first one.

(In case you're curious, it's the September 2378 part, pp. 15-250. Maybe you can read it in a bookstore or something )

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Thrawn you're a fantastic pimp! Pocket should hire you to tout the virtues of their novels all over the internet. You've caused me to give them a lot of money over the last week or so...

 

[shanejayell]

She isn't dead. Anyway, what's wrong with having novels set during the series? Or just after? Do all novels have to fit into this rather unpopular Relaunch? There have been TOS novels set during its first run for decades. Nobody said anything about "reset" to the end of the series. And the character development can continue when Janeway returns from her vacation with the Q. I wonder what she's up to . . . don't you?

There is a certain MJF in this thread who has said that she won't read Trek until a reset happens....

I don't... violently oppose a return of Janeway, but I expect a VERY good novel out of it. Preferably NOT by Peter (Character Warper) David.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

That's not very fair to Peter David. Janeway's character was written all over the place after Jeri Taylor left. If anybody warped Janeway it was the Voyager writing staff under Braga and later under Biller. Peter David can't warp a character who wasn't consistent in the first place.

 

[Rosalind]

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/270913946_efa38ec3d8.jpg

seigezunt, hotlink to images on websites you don't own is forbidden on this board, since I don't think you own roflcat.com, I've turned the image in a link. please don't do it again.

 

[shanejayell]

That's not very fair to Peter David. Janeway's character was written all over the place after Jeri Taylor left. If anybody warped Janeway it was the Voyager writing staff under Braga and later under Biller. Peter David can't warp a character who wasn't consistent in the first place.

*tips hat* I should have clarified I hated how badly he wrote the Enterprise-E bridge crew. Janeway, wasn't that bad...

 

[Thrawn]

Thrawn you're a fantastic pimp! Pocket should hire you to tout the virtues of their novels all over the internet. You've caused me to give them a lot of money over the last week or so...

My diabolical scheme is working...

Actually, it's sort of a fundamental personality trait of mine; anything I love, I attempt to get as many other people as possible to love with me. Been true since I was a tiny child, showing my collection of matchbox cars to anyone of any age that would listen to me. As a career, I've become a high school math teacher, and I think it's pretty much the same thing - I love math, I want to show it to as many people as I can. Working out pretty well so far

Believe me when I tell you, the instant the Trek line starts pissing me off, I'll be out of here and on to something else. I won't be wasting any breath bitching about how annoyed I am. But as long as I am getting such tremendous amounts of enjoyment out of it (I'm on my 175th Trek novel since June 08) I'm happy to hang around here and do the opposite.

I hope you find your money has been well spent.

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

That's not very fair to Peter David. Janeway's character was written all over the place after Jeri Taylor left. If anybody warped Janeway it was the Voyager writing staff under Braga and later under Biller. Peter David can't warp a character who wasn't consistent in the first place.

*tips hat* I should have clarified I hated how badly he wrote the Enterprise-E bridge crew. Janeway, wasn't that bad...

Oh you meant the Q&A characters. I'll just shut the fuck up now.

 

[JD]

She isn't dead. Anyway, what's wrong with having novels set during the series? Or just after? Do all novels have to fit into this rather unpopular Relaunch?

Except, as has been repeatedly stated on here, the Relaunch has actually been very popular. And not only that, but it also allows the authors alot more freedom to play with the characters, so IMO at least it's understandable why most of the novels are set post-series. Now, that's not to say that I don't want to see some more series set books, I just think that if you look at it from the authors perspective, you can see where Relaunch books would be more appealing to write.

 

[seigezunt]

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/270913946_efa38ec3d8.jpg

seigezunt, hotlink to images on websites you don't own is forbidden on this board, since I don't think you own roflcat.com, I've turned the image in a link. please don't do it again.

My apologies. I never do that, but their site invites it and Oks it, and I wrongly assumed that it was OK here with the party's permission. Won't happen again.

 

[Rosalind]

http://www.roflcat.com/images/cats/270913946_efa38ec3d8.jpg

seigezunt, hotlink to images on websites you don't own is forbidden on this board, since I don't think you own roflcat.com, I've turned the image in a link. please don't do it again.

My apologies. I never do that, but their site invites it and Oks it, and I wrongly assumed that it was OK here with the party's permission. Won't happen again.

Actually, in this case, it might not be a big problem, since they do put the link to the image right there on their site. I will check with the rest of the staff and clarify this.

 

[Therin of Andor]

I have never insulted the writers to Star Trek books.

Yes you did. You called their books 'so-called "professional novels", in inverted commas, thus suggesting that they are not truly professional. That was my point.

just because someone wasn't paid to write something doesn't necessarily make it not professional. Professional is often such a relative term.

No, your previous description sounded like you meant their work was less-than-professional.

She isn't dead. Anyway, what's wrong with having novels set during the series?

Nothing. "The "String Theory" trilogy.

But last time this was suggested as a possibility, several Janeway fans said that even a 7YM book would be forever tainted because the reader knows that Janeway is slated to die an early death.

Do all novels have to fit into this rather unpopular Relaunch?

Unpopular? Since when?

 

[Therin of Andor]

Just because I presonally didn't care for Deep Space Nine as a series doesn't mean that I have bashed it. What you are saying I am cannot freely choose to express my opinion that I didn't care for Deep Space Nine it without somehow bashing it in the process.

You said that "Deep Space Nine is the series that tried to drive me away." The series actually took on sentience and tried to drive you away? Or you tried to watch it and disliked it?

You criticized Janeway "bashers", then proceeded to use emotive language to do exactly the same to DS9 while claiming not to be someone who does that kind of thing.

Then you said you "respect that there are Deep Space Nine fans, and don't feel the need to bash it, or them" quickly followed by you claiming that DS9 is "Star Trek in name only", which is again a very controversial thing to say to DS9 fans, for someone who is claiming not to be a "basher".

Of course you can express an opinion and, of course, it can be different to ours, but the show itself didn't purposely drive you away, and it is certainly not "Star Trek in name only". It delves into darker corners than TNG usually did, yes, but it still upholds all the essentials of ST.

 

[RonG]

The way I see it, the main "argument" currently on this thread is that Janeway=Voyager (the series), and some Janeway fans equate not wanting KJ back (at least not unconditionally) to not liking VOY and treating it as "less" than TNG and DS9.

I can't stress how absurd this sounds (IMO)...

I never liked KJ (but I will try Mosaic based on kimc's rcommendation), and I always liked TNG and DS9 *way* better than VOY - but the two are not the same, and I don't understand those who make that comparison...

On the other hand, I *loved* Full Circle and Unworthy, and I don't understand how *any* self-proclaimed "fan" of VOY and KJ would skip this two-part Trek masterpiece (unless of course, they don't *read* VOY novels, which makes this point rather moot, and frankly out of place on this board..)

Not to sound impolite or anything, but aren't there boards on TrekBBS better suited for this thread in its current state, like the Voyager one or the fan fic one?

 

[JoeP]

Life isn't fair. However, if novels are about profit, maybe it is time to finally treat Voyager and Janeway fairly.

They've been treated quite fairly, actually. The series has been given a fresh, new direction that has been embraced by a majority of fans and brought in new readership, and Janeway was mourned respectfully by the characters throughout Full Circle and Unworthy.

And the novels themselves have been profitable enough to warrant the commission of another that's coming in 2011, written by Kristen as well. And that's all that counts.

She isn't dead.

Yes, she is.

Do all novels have to fit into this rather unpopular Relaunch?

Unpopular with a small group of fans, that is. Wildly popular with a larger group of others. It's brought in new readership to the series and opened up amazing story possibilities. It's a good time to be a Voyager and TrekLit fan.

 

[F. King Daniel]

^Unless you're an obsessive Janeway fan!

 

[JoeP]

^Unless you're an obsessive Janeway fan!

Hahaha, true. But I suspect there's very little that would make them happy.