Should they bring back Janeway?

[JoeP]

Isabo's Shirt was a professionally written story in the Voyager anthology Distant Shores.

Just quoting this bit to hype one of the best Voyager books out there. It may be short stories instead of a novel, but it's a really good collection of short stories.

Never picked it up when it was released, but all of the Voyager talk as of late has piqued my interest. I definitely plan to pick it up when my to-read pile gets a little bit lower.

 

[Thrawn]

an omen of ill if ever there was one.

Really?

Well, that bit is apt enough.

Sure, but who thinks it's an ill omen? It's just the writer winking at the audience, which is totally not stylistically valid for this kind of thing. Only PAD was able to do that, and only once, and even that mostly didn't work (TNG: Strike Zone).

Plus, the idiom is "ill omen"; "omen of ill" is awkward and forced. And overwritten anyway.

Gah.

 

[RonG]

Nothing listed in kimc's post was fanfic. Isabo's Shirt was a professionally written story in the Voyager anthology Distant Shores.

I was referring to kimc's qoute "As AuntKate has already mentioned it's difficult to find a Janeway written by Pocket that reflects the qualities fans see in her"

I assume that other than episodes and Kirsten's short story, kimc was referring to fan-fiction as a source of stories which reflects Janeway's best qualities accoriding to her fans...

Nope - I was giving an explanation to why I was going to start listing televised episodes instead of more Pocket titles.

hmm.. I was asking for *novel* recommendations, on a Trek Literature board (not the Fan Fiction or TV one)...

... so other than Mosaic and Isabo's Shirt there are no recommended novels by Janeway fans?

Wasn't it just the other day when a Janeway fan accused "us" of taking over "their" novels? What novels were they referring to??

 

[Thrawn]

Captain's Table: Fire Ship is outstanding; in my opinion, the definitive Janeway story. And I like Infinity's Prism: Places Of Exile a lot, but a lot of Janeway fans (including, actually, Kirsten Beyer) aren't fans of Janeway's portrayal there, so that recommendation is a little more hedged.

In general, numerically or quality-wise, it's hard to argue against the fact that Voyager's gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to novels. It's hard to think of very many good Voyager novels period, much less Janeway ones. Voyager's prior relaunch didn't hold a candle to really any of the other ongoing serialized narratives, Voyager's numbered books are almost universally lame, Voyager's entries in all of Ordover's crossover series (with the Captain's Table exception) tended to be the worst of the bunch, and even String Theory began brilliantly but ended on a kind of sour note.

In fact, aside from Beyer's books, Fire Ship, Infinity's Prism, and the first String Theory entry, I can't think of any Voyager books I've liked very much. I haven't read Mosaic or Pathways, though.

 

[kimc]

And it's great you enjoy it, whatever floats your boat. No one's begrudging you of that. But it was suggested that it should be read before bashed, so I thought 'what the hell...', gave it a try and posted my impressions. Which is more than can be said of some of the Janeway Crazies that have posted in this thread and others about Full Circle and Unworthy. If only they took your advice too.

I take it reading bits of it in the bookstore before tossing it back onto the shelf in disgust doesn't count? Oh well...

The thing is I own literally dozens of Pocket book titles - TOS & TNG as well as Voyager. I also read a variety of other types of literature. The fact is that FOR ME I used to read Trek books simply for fun. I'm interested in great adventures with characters I know and love. I'd like to see Janeway written as portrayed in the televised series - not the angry fanboy version of her that has been in novels like "Before Dishonor". I'd like to see her brought back without having her death, her relationship with Chakotay and other elements introduced by Beyer brushed under the carpet.

Well, that's what I'd like. I've long ago resigned myself the the fact that mine is not a demographic that media companies are interested in. Is that fair? No. Then again, life isn't fair so on we go...

 

[RonG]

Captain's Table: Fire Ship is outstanding; in my opinion, the definitive Janeway story. And I like Infinity's Prism: Places Of Exile a lot, but a lot of Janeway fans (including, actually, Kirsten Beyer) aren't fans of Janeway's portrayal there, so that recommendation is a little more hedged.

In general, numerically or quality-wise, it's hard to argue against the fact that Voyager's gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to novels. It's hard to think of very many good Voyager novels period, much less Janeway ones. Voyager's prior relaunch didn't hold a candle to really any of the other ongoing serialized narratives, Voyager's numbered books are almost universally lame, Voyager's entries in all of Ordover's crossover series (with the Captain's Table exception) tended to be the worst of the bunch, and even String Theory began brilliantly but ended on a kind of sour note.

In fact, aside from Beyer's books, Fire Ship, Infinity's Prism, and the first String Theory entry, I can't think of any Voyager books I've liked very much. I haven't read Mosaic or Pathways, though.

Thanks, Thrawn. These actually mirror my own experience - that's why I wanted some of the Janeway fans to give me recommendations on some novels that demonstrate the character traits that had made them such loyal and vocal fans...

So far, other than kimc's one novel and one short story, they didn't respond..

Originally, I had thought that the MJF's stayed away from the novels, until I read here that one fan regarded VOY novels as "their" novels - meaning that fan surely read *one* of "their" novels, no?...

 

[Tidus79001]

Oh, and I have read both the so called "professional books", and the fanfiction.

If you feel the need to insult the professional authors with inverted comments, and can truly say you prefer the grab bag that is amateur writing, then I have to wonder why you bother to stay in a BBS section that is for fans of the professional ST fiction..

I have never insulted the writers to Star Trek books. If I didn't like the writing I wouldn't have kept reading them for over 20 years & still read them even today.

My thanks to all of the authors over the years who have contributed to the world of Star Trek (both paid authors, and fan authors).

My use of phrase "so called professional books" was meant that just because someone wasn't paid to write something doesn't necessarily make it not professional. Professional is often such a relative term.

 

[seigezunt]

But, boy, having a professional editor at work does help.

I clicked that link to the Virtual 8th Season.

*wince*

 

[RonG]

If you feel the need to insult the professional authors with inverted comments, and can truly say you prefer the grab bag that is amateur writing, then I have to wonder why you bother to stay in a BBS section that is for fans of the professional ST fiction..

I have never insulted the writers to Star Trek books. If I didn't like the writing I wouldn't have kept reading them for over 20 years & still read them even today.

Tidus79001, Do you have any favorite Janeway *Pocket Books* novels? Or is her portrayal in all PB novels not to your liking (even prior to her death)?

 

[Thrawn]

Professional is often such a relative term.

Lemme tell you the difference.

"Perhaps, he thought, he should apply for a posting to Utopia Planitia. He had rebuilt these engines so many times that he would be bored on a normal Starfleet mission, where major repairs and refurbishments were left to drydock. He had also enjoyed the experimental aspects to working in Engineering aboard Voyager - adding alien technology to the ship and seeing how far it could take them. It was illogical to thrive on excitement, however. Perhaps he should return to Vulcan to undertake the Kolinahr discipline."

Not professional.

"Visions of her beautiful children being turned to fire haunted her when she closed her eyes. There was nothing she wouldn't do to prevent that, she was certain of it. She would kill, die, or sacrifice the ship and who or whatever was necessary, if doing so saved her children. But tonight, alone in her quarters, her face buried in the soft clutch of a pillow, all she could do was sob with rage for the lives she had already failed to defend."

Professional.

(For the record, I opened up to a random page of Destiny: Gods Of Night and wrote down the first non-dialogue paragraph I saw. I am in no way cherry-picking.)

 

[seigezunt]

Ooof!

 

[Tidus79001]

Deep Space Nine is the series that tried to drive me away. I respect that there are Deep Space Nine fans, and don't feel the need to bash it, or them. To me Deep Space Nine is Star Trek in name only.

You've just bashed it.

Just because I presonally didn't care for Deep Space Nine as a series doesn't mean that I have bashed it. What you are saying I am cannot freely choose to express my opinion that I didn't care for Deep Space Nine it without somehow bashing it in the process.

I can choose to not watch Deep Space Nine, and still respect that Deep Space Nine fans like that series. You like Deep Space Nine as a series, and that is your choice. I like Voyager as a series, and that is my choice. Just because we don't agree on our preference between Voyager & Deep Space Nine that doesn't mean I don't respect the choice of other person to like the series that he/she chooses. That is called respectfully disagreeing NOT bashing. You clearly don't know the distinction between the two.

 

[Thrawn]

I think he was taking issue with "To me Deep Space Nine is Star Trek in name only." I see what you meant, but on messageboards just like in emails text can sometimes take on connotations you don't intend, and that sentence is pretty dismissive. "Deep Space Nine contains nothing that made me a fan of Star Trek in the first place" wouldn't have drawn any complaints, for instance.

 

[seigezunt]

 

[Tidus79001]

I have never insulted the writers to Star Trek books. If I didn't like the writing I wouldn't have kept reading them for over 20 years & still read them even today.

My thanks to all of the authors over the years who have contributed to the world of Star Trek (both paid authors, and fan authors).

Tidus79001, Do you have any favorite Janeway *Pocket Books* novels? Or is her portrayal in all PB novels not to your liking (even prior to her death)?

I like almost all of the Star Trek books that I have read over the last 20 years. The authors have consistently set high standards over the years.

Quit trying to put words in my mouth that I don't like the authors that have wrote Star Trek books for Pocket books.

Oh, and you took my post out context (the part where I thanked all of the authors for contributing to Star Trek literature over the years, and you will see I have taken the liberty of correcting that omission that you made on your part when you quoted me).

 

[RonG]

Tidus79001, Do you have any favorite Janeway *Pocket Books* novels? Or is her portrayal in all PB novels not to your liking (even prior to her death)?

I like almost all of the Star Trek books that I have read over that last 20 years. The authors have consistently set high standards over the years.

Quit trying to put words in my mouth that I don't like the authors that have wrote Star Trek books for Pocket books.

Oh, and you took my post out context (the part where I thanked all of the authors for contributing to Star Trek literature over the years, and you will see I have taken the liberty of correcting that omission that you made on your part when you quoted me)

I wasn't saying that you disliked any and all PB authors - I was simply asking you if you had any favorite PB novels starring Janeway...

For some reason I can't get an answer from the Janeway fans on this thread...

*surely* you have some books with your favorite (or one of your favorite) character, to which you can point as being "true" to her character...

 

[Admiral James Kirk]

Certainly they must have read and enjoyed Mosaic. It was written by Janeway's creator Jeri Taylor. Nobody can argue that Janeway was out of character in that book because nobody knows Janeway better than Taylor.

 

[shanejayell]

*voted Keep 'er dead.*

The MJFs boggle my mind... they don't just want Janeway back, but re-set to the end of Voyager? What about character development? What about everyone else on the crew?

 

[RonG]

Mosaic was the only novel recommendation I got... but, surely, there must be more.

this all started when I tried to understand Janeway's fans' viewpoint, to maybe see what I' had never before, as KJ wasn't even close to a favorite..

after kimc recommended Mosaic and Isabo's Shirt, I asked fo more *from the KJ fans*, but got nothing.

my current opinion is back being that, and it's admittedly a generalization, the KJ fans (or MJF's) don't even read Pocket Books VOY novels, and have been up in arms over her death just because the *idea* offends them.

they didn't read VOY novels in the past, don't read them now, and won't read them in the future... so why don't they just go and read their fan fiction and stop whining on the Trek Literature board?

 

[AuntKate]

Captain's Table: Fire Ship is outstanding; in my opinion, the definitive Janeway story. And I like Infinity's Prism: Places Of Exile a lot, but a lot of Janeway fans (including, actually, Kirsten Beyer) aren't fans of Janeway's portrayal there, so that recommendation is a little more hedged.

In general, numerically or quality-wise, it's hard to argue against the fact that Voyager's gotten the short end of the stick when it comes to novels. It's hard to think of very many good Voyager novels period, much less Janeway ones. Voyager's prior relaunch didn't hold a candle to really any of the other ongoing serialized narratives, Voyager's numbered books are almost universally lame, Voyager's entries in all of Ordover's crossover series (with the Captain's Table exception) tended to be the worst of the bunch, and even String Theory began brilliantly but ended on a kind of sour note.

In fact, aside from Beyer's books, Fire Ship, Infinity's Prism, and the first String Theory entry, I can't think of any Voyager books I've liked very much. I haven't read Mosaic or Pathways, though.

Thanks, Thrawn. These actually mirror my own experience - that's why I wanted some of the Janeway fans to give me recommendations on some novels that demonstrate the character traits that had made them such loyal and vocal fans...

So far, other than kimc's one novel and one short story, they didn't respond..

Originally, I had thought that the MJF's stayed away from the novels, until I read here that one fan regarded VOY novels as "their" novels - meaning that fan surely read *one* of "their" novels, no?...

I didn't respond because I agreed with KimC (surprise!) and Thrawn. Since I had nothing to add, I kept my peace.