Should they bring back Janeway?

[JoeP]

Clearly many of the posters on here are Next Generation & Deep Space Nine fans. Are you telling me that you wouldn't care if they killed Picard off, or weren't even a little bit irritated when the killed Sisko off?

Nope, I wasn't irritated at all. In fact, I thought it showed a lot of guts to "kill off" the lead character in the final episode. Never been done before in a Trek finale.

And of course we would care if Picard was killed off. But if it happened in a good story, we'd praise it. If it happened in a bad story, we'd bash it. But what was displayed in the Dead Janeway threads goes over the line.

The Voyager Virtual Season 8 - 9 are very high quality writing. Don't be so narrow minded as to believe that only people who are paid to write something can make a quality piece of literature. Maybe you should try reading it before you bash it.

Voyager Virtual Season Project
http://vv8.jetc.org/main.html

Well, I did just try reading it. The first "episode" of season 8, in fact. If people want to read this for whatever reason, fine. By my guest. Enjoy. But c'mon, be real. To call it "very high quality writing" is just absurd.

Here's how it opens:

The surviving crew of the unluckiest starship in Federation history gazed entranced at long-range visuals of blue-green Earth. After seven long years, they had made it home. Most of them, that is, and close enough to home. One short light-year lay between Voyager and everything they'd left behind when the Caretaker's array dragged them
to the far reaches of the galaxy.

At the Captain's orders, Commander Chakotay took the helm - an omen of ill if ever there was one.

"Set a course...for home," Captain Janeway said, one last time.

Chakotay laid in the course and Voyager glided Earthwards on impulse power alone. Yet the viewscreen displayed the fleet approaching Earth at much closer range.

"Very nice, Mr. Kim, but a little premature," Janeway said. The eager ensign had superimposed short-range visuals of the fleet over the long-range scan of Earth.

"It's a standard technique for tactical views," Harry said in his own defense.

"This isn't the Chin'toka Retreat, Ensign," Janeway replied. "The Borg were kind enough to drop us off a light-year from home, but there is a speed limit here in the Alpha Quadrant."

The Captain turned back towards Chakotay at the helm and added, "Keep that in mind, Commander."

Really?

Or here's another I found from skimming the rest that I couldn't bring myself to finish:

"Lieutenant Torres would be proud of you all," Nicoletti told her tired, overworked Engineering staff. "We've finished the repairs half an hour ahead of schedule. Let's run the final diagnostics and get this ship home!"

That pesky Bajoran dance music blared from the speakers again. Sue wiped the sweat from her face with her shirtsleeve and sighed. They would never behave this way around Torres, or poor Joe Carey. Tabor just stood there looking innocent, but Sue knew an instigator when she saw one.

Vorik frowned slightly as he ran the warp core diagnostic. If there was anything more illogical than Humans, it was Bajorans. He would miss his illogical associates in Engineering, nevertheless. Perhaps, he thought, he should apply for a posting to Utopia Planitia. He had rebuilt these engines so many times that he would be bored on a normal Starfleet mission, where major repairs and refurbishments were left to
drydock. He had also enjoyed the experimental aspects to working in Engineering aboard Voyager - adding alien technology to the ship and seeing how far it could take them. It was illogical to thrive on excitement, however. Perhaps he should return to Vulcan to undertake the Kolinahr discipline.

When the diagnostics came back within specs, Nicoletti joined Tabor on the dance floor in front of the warp core. Vorik sighed; even Utopia Planitia would be dull after Voyager.

Oy. Vey.

 

[F. King Daniel]

I don't see how a Janeway return could possibly be more hokey than the way she "died" in Before Dishonor.

 

[elaithin]

People also think "Twilight" is quality writing.

Just saying.

 

[RonG]

As for main characters' deaths, I thought Sisko's and Janeway's fates were fitting (each in its own way) to the character's history and/or arc in previous episodes or novels.

I found Kirk's and Trip's deaths pointless and mundane. I do think that a good enough reason is needed to reverse those deaths, and while I haven't read the Enterprise Relaunch novels, I don't think the Shatnerverse novels are that reason

As far as Picard goes, I always thought that

Spoiler: spoilers for Destiny Trilogy

he would die in Destiny, and I was ready to read the after effects (kudos goes to David Mack for instilling that uncertainty about such an important canon character )

 

[JoeP]

People also think "Twilight" is quality writing.

Just saying.

At least Twilight was proofread, though.

EDIT: I presume you mean the vampire books, and not the Mission: Gamma book, right?

 

[ProtoAvatar]

This thread just keeps going and going - fuelled by the bitterness of hard-core KJ fans.

Partly, I can even understand them - they invested themselves emotionally in the character and they're disappointed/hurt that this character is now dead.

Of course, this doesn't change the fact that them screaming out their frustrations is for me - who don't share their devotion to the character - pathetic.
Everyone who comes with arguments like - this fan-fiction is better than this professional book I haven't read - should expect to be looked at with 'what trauma did this person went through?' or 'what's up with this person?' expressions.

Clearly many of the posters on here are Next Generation & Deep Space Nine fans. Are you telling me that you wouldn't care if they killed Picard off, or weren't even a little bit irritated when the killed Sisko off?

My reaction to deaths in star trek:
Sisko's death was quite fitting - I wasn't 'irritated' at all; a little nostalgic, perpaps (in my opinion, DS9 is the best trek series);
Kirk's death was mundane - but I was not a TOS fan, so it didn't affect me at all;
Data's, Trip's deaths were badly done, which did irritate me a little - but you do NOT see me interminably/pathetically complaining about them YEARS after they took place:
Trip - I would have preferred to stay dead, mostly because his 'resurrection' was lackingly done;
Data - I don't want him to 'come back' because the changes made to TNG crew/missions (among other things, adding politics) in trek lit are FAR more interesting than the story of the week with the same stale cast.

Oh, and I have read both the so called "professional books", and the fanfiction.

If true, then you're the exception. Most other Janeway hard-core fans didn't - by their own admission.

 

[RonG]

People also think "Twilight" is quality writing.

Just saying.

At least Twilight was proofread, though.

EDIT: I presume you mean the vampire books, and not the Mission: Gamma book, right?

No amount of proofreading can save THAT pile of $#!^
(IMHO, of course..)

and I'm referring to the vampire books, not DRG3's book

 

[JoeP]

People also think "Twilight" is quality writing.

Just saying.

At least Twilight was proofread, though.

EDIT: I presume you mean the vampire books, and not the Mission: Gamma book, right?

No amount of proofreading can save THAT pile of $#!^
(IMHO, of course..)

and I'm referring to the vampire books, not DRG3's book

I agree! I'm just saying that between having to read Twilight and this Voyager fanfic, consider me Team Edward all the way. As scary as that thought actually is...

 

[brcarthey]

oh jeez! i hope this isn't going to lead us to start talking about "the vampax chronicles."

 

[Therin of Andor]

Clearly many of the posters on here are Next Generation & Deep Space Nine fans. Are you telling me that you wouldn't care if they killed Picard off, or weren't even a little bit irritated when the killed Sisko off?

I am a fan of all ST, but was constantly disappointed by VOY's many missed opportunities, especially in its first three years, and ENT's bizarrely dire second season.

Should-they-kill-Picard? has been around since the end of Season Three of TNG, and yeah, if the story was as strong as "Best of Both Worlds" and "Family", go for it! It was also fun to watch people scramble when they thought either Picard or Bev wouldn't make it through "Death in Winter" unscathed.

Sisko's departure was the climax of the excellent "What You Leave Behind". That montage of farewells, set to Vic's singing, and the final shot of Jake and Kira could not have carried the emotional weight it did if Sisko had been standing there as well. Nor would we have had the exciting wait to get to the hardcover, "Unity"!

Oh, and I have read both the so called "professional books", and the fanfiction.

If you feel the need to insult the professional authors with inverted comments, and can truly say you prefer the grab bag that is amateur writing, then I have to wonder why you bother to stay in a BBS section that is for fans of the professional ST fiction.

I've read a lot of excellent ST fanfic over the decades - and know many fans who graduated to professional status as writers by getting their start in fanfic, but even they would look back in horror at their earlier works. Eventually you get to the point where you tire of it. When fanfic went online, and was suddenly free to all, it seemed to me that it became impossible to sort out the quality stuff. So I let Pocket's editors do the sorting for me.

Don't be so narrow minded as to believe that only people who are paid to write something can make a quality piece of literature.

Pot, meet Kettle.

 

[Therin of Andor]

Deep Space Nine is the series that tried to drive me away... I respect that there are Deep Space Nine fans, and don't feel the need to bash it, or them. To me Deep Space Nine is Star Trek in name only.

You've just bashed it.

 

[F. King Daniel]

Staring at the lovely picture on the cover of Before Dishonor, I wonder if had they killed Seven, would there be such an outpouring. Seven is a force of nature, someone who rebuilt her life after having so much of it taken away, having to learn to funtion in society and interact with others. As taught by her mentor she always did what she thought was right. She's also hot as the inside of an active intermix chamber. In all her years on Voyager she's only made (AFAI recall) one really wrong decision (when she beamed that 8472 to the Hirogen) compared to Janeway's dozens. Would she get this kind of fanaticism afterward?

 

[Thrawn]

And of course we would care if Picard was killed off. But if it happened in a good story, we'd praise it. If it happened in a bad story, we'd bash it. But what was displayed in the Dead Janeway threads goes over the line.

Agreed. I, also, was wondering if Picard would die in Destiny, and wouldn't have necessarily enjoyed it (I imagine it would've been like most of Mack's other sudden punches to the stomach), but I would've certainly seen the value.

The Voyager Virtual Season 8 - 9 are very high quality writing. Don't be so narrow minded as to believe that only people who are paid to write something can make a quality piece of literature. Maybe you should try reading it before you bash it.

Voyager Virtual Season Project
http://vv8.jetc.org/main.html

Well, I did just try reading it. The first "episode" of season 8, in fact. If people want to read this for whatever reason, fine. By my guest. Enjoy. But c'mon, be real. To call it "very high quality writing" is just absurd.

Oh...oh wow...

That paragraph on Vorik is so labyrinthine that I had to read it three times just to figure out what the hell it was talking about.

Yeah, uh, I'll stick to stuff written by professionals. If you actually enjoy this more, you're welcome to it.

 

[elaithin]

People also think "Twilight" is quality writing.

Just saying.

At least Twilight was proofread, though.

EDIT: I presume you mean the vampire books, and not the Mission: Gamma book, right?

Yes. I quite enjoyed the entire Mission: Gamma series. As for Stephanie Meyer, I tend to think Stephen King summed it up best:

"The difference between Meyer and Jo Rowling is that Jo knows how to write worth a damn."

(I'm paraphrasing, but not much.)

 

[kimc]

I'm not into fan-fiction and I already watched VOY on TV... I was kind of hoping to get recommendations for professionally-authored Pocket Books Novels.

I will try Mosaic (I think I read it years ago and liked it somewhat), but I hope other Janeway fans can recommend more Pocket Books Novels..

Nothing listed in kimc's post was fanfic. Isabo's Shirt was a professionally written story in the Voyager anthology Distant Shores.

I was referring to kimc's qoute "As AuntKate has already mentioned it's difficult to find a Janeway written by Pocket that reflects the qualities fans see in her"

I assume that other than episodes and Kirsten's short story, kimc was referring to fan-fiction as a source of stories which reflects Janeway's best qualities accoriding to her fans...

Nope - I was giving an explanation to why I was going to start listing televised episodes instead of more Pocket titles.

 

[kimc]

I don't see how a Janeway return could possibly be more hokey than the way she "died" in Before Dishonor.

A good point. Nowhere to go but up, right?

People also think "Twilight" is quality writing.

Just saying.

At least Twilight was proofread, though.

Ugh. I volunteer with Big Brother/Big Sister and my "little" wanted me to read the series since she was so enamored with it. I could barely make it thru the first chapter. I know I'm going to have to try again though since it's so important to her but I've been putting it off.

Anyway, you bring up a perfect example of how just because something is "professionally" published doesn't follow that it's any good. Yes, there's some really bad fanfiction out there but a lot of it is quite good. Also, some fanfiction authors will proof each other's work.

Staring at the lovely picture on the cover of Before Dishonor, I wonder if had they killed Seven, would there be such an outpouring. Seven is a force of nature, someone who rebuilt her life after having so much of it taken away, having to learn to funtion in society and interact with others. As taught by her mentor she always did what she thought was right. She's also hot as the inside of an active intermix chamber. In all her years on Voyager she's only made (AFAI recall) one really wrong decision (when she beamed that 8472 to the Hirogen) compared to Janeway's dozens. Would she get this kind of fanaticism afterward?

That's a good question. According to the Season 7 dvd interviews the introduction of an emotional dampening chip was supposed to be the beginning of a "tragic arc" for Seven culminating in her death in the finale. The writers pulled back from that but even so the start of the "tragic arc" made her "fairy tale ending" in "Endgame" kind of jarring.

Would there have been the same outpouring of rage as there was with Janeway's death in the books? I honestly don't know.

 

[JoeP]

Anyway, you bring up a perfect example of how just because something is "professionally" published doesn't follow that it's any good. Yes, there's some really bad fanfiction out there but a lot of it is quite good. Also, some fanfiction authors will proof each other's work.

Right. But there's a certain minimum level of polish, for lack of a better word, that one can expect of professionally written and edited books that I have yet to come across in fanfic. And so far, of the Voyager fanfic that has been put forth here as examples of how the line "should've gone" (my paraphrasing), I've seen nothing that impresses.

 

[kimc]

Anyway, you bring up a perfect example of how just because something is "professionally" published doesn't follow that it's any good. Yes, there's some really bad fanfiction out there but a lot of it is quite good. Also, some fanfiction authors will proof each other's work.

Right. But there's a certain minimum level of polish, for lack of a better word, that one can expect of professionally written and edited books that I have yet to come across in fanfic. And so far, of the Voyager fanfic that has been put forth here as examples of how the line "should've gone" (my paraphrasing), I've seen nothing that impresses.

Well if you don't enjoy it then don't read it. Personally, I find it fun.

 

[JoeP]

Anyway, you bring up a perfect example of how just because something is "professionally" published doesn't follow that it's any good. Yes, there's some really bad fanfiction out there but a lot of it is quite good. Also, some fanfiction authors will proof each other's work.

Right. But there's a certain minimum level of polish, for lack of a better word, that one can expect of professionally written and edited books that I have yet to come across in fanfic. And so far, of the Voyager fanfic that has been put forth here as examples of how the line "should've gone" (my paraphrasing), I've seen nothing that impresses.

Well if you don't enjoy it then don't read it. Personally, I find it fun.

And it's great you enjoy it, whatever floats your boat. No one's begrudging you of that. But it was suggested that it should be read before bashed, so I thought 'what the hell...', gave it a try and posted my impressions. Which is more than can be said of some of the Janeway Crazies that have posted in this thread and others about Full Circle and Unworthy. If only they took your advice too.

 

[Steve Roby]

Isabo's Shirt was a professionally written story in the Voyager anthology Distant Shores.

Just quoting this bit to hype one of the best Voyager books out there. It may be short stories instead of a novel, but it's a really good collection of short stories.

The Voyager Virtual Season 8 - 9 are very high quality writing.

an omen of ill if ever there was one.

Really?

Well, that bit is apt enough.