To be honest with you I'm no fan of Voyager. In fact it's the series that drove me away from Trek as a franchise. Still I watched it for seven years and I always did wonder what happened after they got home. It's about damn time I found out.
Should they bring back Janeway?
- Thread starter F. King Daniel
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To be honest with you I'm no fan of Voyager. In fact it's the series that drove me away from Trek as a franchise. Still I watched it for seven years and I always did wonder what happened after they got home. It's about damn time I found out.
I actually have the highest compliment for the Kirsten Beyer books:
They made me interested in going back and revisiting Voyager on DVD.
I don't know if I would go that far
but they did interest me in reading more Voyager books which I can honestly say no Voyager book has done that for me before.
When they reintroduce Janeway to the novels, and I do mean when, not if, I hope that the writers spend some quality time watching VOY so they don't oversimplify her or write the "stereotype" of her that seems to exist among many posters here. The authors tend to make her too focused on getting home, when, in reality, she was thrilled with the chance to explore along the way. They make her too inflexible or bossy, when she was wonderfully responsive to the needs of her crew, often going out of her way to indulge them (and not just Seven--the doctor, B'Elanna, even Chakotay). She has a great sense of humor and is able to laugh at herself, but that just doesn't show up in many of the novels I've read (which is all of the VOY novels except the two most recent ones).
I don't understand why the editors would ask a writer who dislikes Voyager or it's characters to write a novel that included them. Finding a novelist who likes the series and the characters would seem to be job one--and don't tell me that it doesn't matter. If the writer isn't interested in and doesn't care about the characters, he/she won't do a good job.
From what I've heard, Kirsten Beyer seems to like Voyager and its characters, so that is a good thing. I just hope that she is also able to be true to the Janeway that we knew on the screen.
I don't understand why the editors would ask a writer who dislikes Voyager or it's characters to write a novel that included them. Finding a novelist who likes the series and the characters would seem to be job one--and don't tell me that it doesn't matter. If the writer isn't interested in and doesn't care about the characters, he/she won't do a good job.
From what I've heard, Kirsten Beyer seems to like Voyager and its characters, so that is a good thing. I just hope that she is also able to be true to the Janeway that we knew on the screen.
Peter David's "Before Dishonor" is a sequel to his TNG Borg novel - the very first Borg novel - "Vendetta". That book featured a female Borg.
Getting PAD to write a post-series, post-"First Contact" sequel to his best-selling, highly popular "Vendetta", that ignored the now-most identifiable face of the Borg, Seven of Nine, plus Seven's mentor, Kathryn Janeway, would seem... very strange, and a missed opportunity.
PAD disliked VOY, yes, and has ridiculed the inconsistent TV writing of Janeway's character in articles (IIRC). I don't know his opinion on Seven of Nine.
He treated Seven extremely well in BD. If find it hard to believe he dislikes her. If he did he would have taken her down a peg or two.
As the basic argument over Janeway doesn't seem to go anywhere (and probably wouldn't), I would like to try and bury the hatchet, so to speak.
I have to admit, that reading comments from Janeway fans has made me interested in reading some books starring KJ, even though I was never a VOY or KJ fan, and I would love to get recommendations from Janeway fans as to which novels I should look up.
I specifically address this to the KJ fans posting here, as I would love to try and get a feeling for the character they love so much, in stories they feel best embody her
I have to admit, that reading comments from Janeway fans has made me interested in reading some books starring KJ, even though I was never a VOY or KJ fan, and I would love to get recommendations from Janeway fans as to which novels I should look up.
I specifically address this to the KJ fans posting here, as I would love to try and get a feeling for the character they love so much, in stories they feel best embody her
ProtoAvatar
Fleet Captain
This thread just keeps going and going - fuelled by the bitterness of hard-core KJ fans.
Partly, I can even understand them - they invested themselves emotionally in the character and they're disappointed/hurt that this character is now dead.
Of course, this doesn't change the fact that them screaming out their frustrations is for me - who don't share their devotion to the character - pathetic.
Everyone who comes with arguments like - this fan-fiction is better than this professional book I haven't read - should expect to be looked at with 'what trauma did this person went through?' or 'what's up with this person?' expressions.
Partly, I can even understand them - they invested themselves emotionally in the character and they're disappointed/hurt that this character is now dead.
Of course, this doesn't change the fact that them screaming out their frustrations is for me - who don't share their devotion to the character - pathetic.
Everyone who comes with arguments like - this fan-fiction is better than this professional book I haven't read - should expect to be looked at with 'what trauma did this person went through?' or 'what's up with this person?' expressions.
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I actually have the highest compliment for the Kirsten Beyer books:
They made me interested in going back and revisiting Voyager on DVD.
Seconded.
Death is a part of life. Life without death is not living. It is stasis.
Which is exactly what you want Trek to be. Stasis. No change, no growth. Just relationships and statuses set exactly how you want them, no deviation.
That's not life. The one universal constant is change. Death is part of that change.
The end.
As the basic argument over Janeway doesn't seem to go anywhere (and probably wouldn't), I would like to try and bury the hatchet, so to speak.
I have to admit, that reading comments from Janeway fans has made me interested in reading some books starring KJ, even though I was never a VOY or KJ fan, and I would love to get recommendations from Janeway fans as to which novels I should look up.
I specifically address this to the KJ fans posting here, as I would love to try and get a feeling for the character they love so much, in stories they feel best embody her
I'd recommend "Mosaic" since it gives Janeway's backstory which at one time was considered canon then de-canonized when the writer left the series.
As AuntKate has already mentioned it's difficult to find a Janeway written by Pocket that reflects the qualities fans see in her but Beyer's short story "Isabo's Shirt" would be another good one. Besides, if you like "Full Circle" you would probably enjoy more writing by Beyer anyway.
If you're really interested then look to the televised series. Episodes like "Resistance", "Death Wish", "Counterpoint", "Bride of Chaotica" and "Deadlock" give a sampling of her bravery, compassion and humor, imo.
PAD has said at conventions that Seven instilled some annoyance him to some extent, because one reason for the Roddenberry Disclaimer in Vendetta was that there was no such thing as female Borg. Didn't happen, no way, no how.
He wasn't annoyed with the character, though. He was annoyed with the absurdity/stupidity of the idea that there were no female Borg.
Oh yes, that much I know.
And I've been at conventions where Richard Arnold attempted to defend his stance on "Vendetta".
And I've chuckled my way through PAD's "But I Digress..." omnibus.
Yep, I suspect there's some serious abandonment/survivor's guilt issues going on here.
As the basic argument over Janeway doesn't seem to go anywhere (and probably wouldn't), I would like to try and bury the hatchet, so to speak.
I have to admit, that reading comments from Janeway fans has made me interested in reading some books starring KJ, even though I was never a VOY or KJ fan, and I would love to get recommendations from Janeway fans as to which novels I should look up.
I specifically address this to the KJ fans posting here, as I would love to try and get a feeling for the character they love so much, in stories they feel best embody her
I'd recommend "Mosaic" since it gives Janeway's backstory which at one time was considered canon then de-canonized when the writer left the series.
As AuntKate has already mentioned it's difficult to find a Janeway written by Pocket that reflects the qualities fans see in her but Beyer's short story "Isabo's Shirt" would be another good one. Besides, if you like "Full Circle" you would probably enjoy more writing by Beyer anyway.
If you're really interested then look to the televised series. Episodes like "Resistance", "Death Wish", "Counterpoint", "Bride of Chaotica" and "Deadlock" give a sampling of her bravery, compassion and humor, imo.
I'm not into fan-fiction and I already watched VOY on TV... I was kind of hoping to get recommendations for professionally-authored Pocket Books Novels.
I will try Mosaic (I think I read it years ago and liked it somewhat), but I hope other Janeway fans can recommend more Pocket Books Novels..
As the basic argument over Janeway doesn't seem to go anywhere (and probably wouldn't), I would like to try and bury the hatchet, so to speak.
I have to admit, that reading comments from Janeway fans has made me interested in reading some books starring KJ, even though I was never a VOY or KJ fan, and I would love to get recommendations from Janeway fans as to which novels I should look up.
I specifically address this to the KJ fans posting here, as I would love to try and get a feeling for the character they love so much, in stories they feel best embody her
I'd recommend "Mosaic" since it gives Janeway's backstory which at one time was considered canon then de-canonized when the writer left the series.
As AuntKate has already mentioned it's difficult to find a Janeway written by Pocket that reflects the qualities fans see in her but Beyer's short story "Isabo's Shirt" would be another good one. Besides, if you like "Full Circle" you would probably enjoy more writing by Beyer anyway.
If you're really interested then look to the televised series. Episodes like "Resistance", "Death Wish", "Counterpoint", "Bride of Chaotica" and "Deadlock" give a sampling of her bravery, compassion and humor, imo.
I'm not into fan-fiction and I already watched VOY on TV... I was kind of hoping to get recommendations for professionally-authored Pocket Books Novels.
I will try Mosaic (I think I read it years ago and liked it somewhat), but I hope other Janeway fans can recommend more Pocket Books Novels..
Nothing listed in kimc's post was fanfic. Isabo's Shirt was a professionally written story in the Voyager anthology Distant Shores.
Tidus79001
Lieutenant Commander
Clearly many of the posters on here are Next Generation & Deep Space Nine fans. Are you telling me that you wouldn't care if they killed Picard off, or weren't even a little bit irritated when the killed Sisko off?
Oh, and I have read both the so called "professional books", and the fanfiction.
The Voyager Virtual Season 8 - 9 are very high quality writing. Don't be so narrow minded as to believe that only people who are paid to write something can make a quality piece of literature. Maybe you should try reading it before you bash it.
Voyager Virtual Season Project
http://vv8.jetc.org/main.html
Tidus79001
Lieutenant Commander
To be honest with you I'm no fan of Voyager. In fact it's the series that drove me away from Trek as a franchise. Still I watched it for seven years and I always did wonder what happened after they got home. It's about damn time I found out.
I respect that you aren't a Voyager fan. To each his/her own. Deep Space Nine is the series that tried to drive me away (I turned it off during the pilot, and for me to do that to Star Trek is a hard thing since I am a big Star Trek fan). I have never watched a full season, and only have watched a few episodes, but I never really can get into it. Also I respect that there are Deep Space Nine fans, and don't feel the need to bash it, or them. To me Deep Space Nine is Star Trek in name only.
Also I couldn't stand Enteprise when I first saw it. I tried watching it in the 1st & 2nd seasons, but didn't get interested. I then tried again in the 3rd season, and liked it & watched it through till the end, and I was disappointed when they canceled it (it deserved to have it 7 seasons & was robbed by not getting its last 3 seasons). I then went back, and watched it all the way through from season 1, and found that it wasn't a bad show at all & that I had just never given it a fair chance. I like Enterprise better in a lot of way that the Next Generation.
The Next Generation was too touchy-feely for me (*puke*). If I wanted to see people explore the inner depths of their emotions I would watch a soap opera! The never really explored much, and seem to only want to just frolic around on the holodeck, or when they weren't doing that they were ferrying diplomats all over the galaxy. Don't get me wrong I don't hate the Next Generation, but I never felt attached to it. Voyager was the first series since the original series that I felt attached to & felt that I could call my own.
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I was referring to kimc's qoute "As AuntKate has already mentioned it's difficult to find a Janeway written by Pocket that reflects the qualities fans see in her"
I assume that other than episodes and Kirsten's short story, kimc was referring to fan-fiction as a source of stories which reflects Janeway's best qualities accoriding to her fans...
Not really. Everybody dies eventually.
Not at all. Sisko going off with the prophets made sense with his character arc. If the series had ended and Sisko was still a Starfleet officer sitting behind his desk at DS9 that would've bugged me. I got a sense of him outgrowing Starfleet and embracing Bajor.
I'm also not a huge fan of them bringing Trip back in the novels after he died in TATV. I think it's cute that Shat brought Kirk back twice, but Kirk died to save a planet full of people he'd never heard of, bringing him back so that he can go sky diving with Picard takes away from that sacrifice.
If they can come up with a really good reason to bring Janeway back story-wise (not simply "I want her back, make it work") sure they should go for it, but I can't see it looking anything other than hokey.
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