Should the Borg be the villain in Trek 3?

[BillJ]

We know what the Borg are. We know what they're going to do. We know pretty much everything there is to know about them and we've seen it all. I for one would be decidedly less than excited about going to see another Star Trek film about the Borg.

But we aren't the general audience. They haven't immersed themselves in Trek lore the way that we have and likely most have never seen the Voyager and Enterprise episodes. It will have been twenty-two years since their sole big-screen appearance when Star Trek 2016 is released. Plus, the Borg are one of the few Modern Trek assets that has at least some name recognition amongst general audiences.

From a marketing and ticket-sales standpoint, I think Kirk vs. the Borg is a no-brainer. Question is: do the current Powers That Be have the chops to pull it off?

 

[anh165]

For the borg to be made workable and an interesting antagonist in a nu-Trek movie, the borg would need to be re-imaged and re-written fairly dramatically.

CGI drones that look very mechanical and cybernetic, to be able to move, articulate and perform feats in ways that a humanoid cannot (a visual summation of what the borg are all about, they are extra-ordinary).

.... this would be a far cry from the actors in latex suits as seen in ST:VOY and First Contact.

A clever plot device or fundamental flaw in the borg's reasoning or mission needs to be written to allow Kirk/Enterprise to defeat them, as you would expect in every david and goliath situation in a big screen movie.

I just do not see the TNG/Voyager way of defeating the Borg acceptable in a modern silver screen movie.

Wit, bravery & sacrifice over technobabble please.

 

[anh165]

And wit is something that young nuKirk hopefully is able to demonstrate in the next Trek film.

In the first 2 movies, it is unfair to expect Chris Pine's Kirk to match the guile and world weariness of Shatner's Kirk who the latter is clearer older and more experienced especially during the TMP era.

 

[F. King Daniel]

For a big budget movie and possibly the end of this incarnation of Trek, if they do a Borg story it would be cool if they could end it by freeing the entire collective.

 

[Balrog]

A non-Borg Threatened 24th Century would be interesting.

How about a 'Q Who' type episode with Kirk and crew - They meet up with Q who propells them into the Delta Quadrant to meet the Borg a la Picard style. But instead of getting a bloody nose and running like Picard, Kirk and crew kicks their collective asses, freeing them all, much to Q's dislike.

Fanwanky, I know.

 

[SeerSGB]

A non-Borg Threatened 24th Century would be interesting.

How about a 'Q Who' type episode with Kirk and crew - They meet up with Q who propells them into the Delta Quadrant to meet the Borg a la Picard style. But instead of getting a bloody nose and running like Picard, Kirk and crew kicks their collective asses, freeing them all, much to Q's dislike.

Fanwanky, I know.

Change Q to Trelane.

 

[Sindatur]

A non-Borg Threatened 24th Century would be interesting.

How about a 'Q Who' type episode with Kirk and crew - They meet up with Q who propells them into the Delta Quadrant to meet the Borg a la Picard style. But instead of getting a bloody nose and running like Picard, Kirk and crew kicks their collective asses, freeing them all, much to Q's dislike.

Fanwanky, I know.

Eh, no reason for Q, TOS had plenty of their own "Q"-like adversaries to choose from that could be used.

They could use Charlie X and have Spock and Uhura singing and playing a tune together (Since that was one of their flirtiest moments in TOS), or as SeerSGB says Trelane, or the Witches from the Halloween episode...

 

[Kruezerman]

The problem isn't "overdone," far from it, I always found the Borg very interesting and downright terrifying since I was young, but then Voyager happened and neutered them.

What we need is the Borg done well. If they can pull that off, this fan will be over the moon, because that was my childhood monster. I was always scared of them.

 

[Tiberius]

Reading through this thread and I might be surprised now if this doesn't happen.


Kirk and Spock vs. The Borg


Sounds like fanwank but it might be the most marketable combo in all of Trek.

And it would be proof that the new movies just want to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

 

[Makarov]

A non-Borg Threatened 24th Century would be interesting.

How about a 'Q Who' type episode with Kirk and crew - They meet up with Q who propells them into the Delta Quadrant to meet the Borg a la Picard style. But instead of getting a bloody nose and running like Picard, Kirk and crew kicks their collective asses, freeing them all, much to Q's dislike.

Fanwanky, I know.

Kirk couldn't even face a fellow Federation ship without crying mercy. He'd be begging Q for help against the Borg pretty quickly

 

[Balrog]

One thiing:

No Frickin' Borg Queen!

 

[Tiberius]

One thiing:

No Frickin' Borg Queen!

Nothing wrong with the Queen.

 

[F. King Daniel]

And it would be proof that the new movies just want to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

And miniskirts and skintight catsuits and decon chambers all aren't?

 

[Tiberius]

And it would be proof that the new movies just want to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

And miniskirts and skintight catsuits and decon chambers all aren't?

Oh there's no denying that. But must I remind you of the pointless "Let's have Carol Marcus strip to her undies in the shuttle for no reason other than to show off her body to get more viewers" scene? The new movies are doing everything that Enterprise did - and much much more. Enterprise just shoves women in tight outfits (as did Voyager, admittedly). The new movies are shoving scantily clad women as well as "Huge action sequences that are there because ACTION rather than any need for them in order to advance the plot!" and "Oh, pretty special effects!!!"

 

[BillJ]

And it would be proof that the new movies just want to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Oh bullshit.

Have you not been watching Star Trek for the last forty-plus years? It has always attempted to capture mainstream success.

 

[F. King Daniel]

And it would be proof that the new movies just want to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

And miniskirts and skintight catsuits and decon chambers all aren't?

Oh there's no denying that. But must I remind you of the pointless "Let's have Carol Marcus strip to her undies in the shuttle for no reason other than to show off her body to get more viewers" scene? The new movies are doing everything that Enterprise did - and much much more. Enterprise just shoves women in tight outfits (as did Voyager, admittedly). The new movies are shoving scantily clad women as well as "Huge action sequences that are there because ACTION rather than any need for them in order to advance the plot!" and "Oh, pretty special effects!!!"

That's like complaining that TOS Kirk solved problems with his fists instead of diplomacy. "He could have talked his way out of it!"

 

[M'Sharak]

And miniskirts and skintight catsuits and decon chambers all aren't?

Oh there's no denying that. But must I remind you of the pointless "Let's have Carol Marcus strip to her undies in the shuttle for no reason other than to show off her body to get more viewers" scene? The new movies are doing everything that Enterprise did - and much much more. Enterprise just shoves women in tight outfits (as did Voyager, admittedly). The new movies are shoving scantily clad women as well as "Huge action sequences that are there because ACTION rather than any need for them in order to advance the plot!" and "Oh, pretty special effects!!!"

That's like complaining that TOS Kirk solved problems with his fists instead of diplomacy. "He could have talked his way out of it!"

Pfft. That only ever worked with highly-advanced computers.

 

[Tiberius]

And it would be proof that the new movies just want to appeal to the lowest common denominator.

Oh bullshit.

Have you not been watching Star Trek for the last forty-plus years? It has always attempted to capture mainstream success.

Which is why DS9 became so serialized?

Yes, the series always wanted to be popular. It's business, of course they did. But the movies are going further and turning into more of a generic sci fi movie with the name Star Trek glued to the front. Honestly, the latest movie, change the names and it didn't even need to be a Star trek film.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I disagree. There is still plenty of Trek in these films. It's just a different attitude.

 

[Grendelsbayne]

A non-Borg Threatened 24th Century would be interesting.

How about a 'Q Who' type episode with Kirk and crew - They meet up with Q who propells them into the Delta Quadrant to meet the Borg a la Picard style. But instead of getting a bloody nose and running like Picard, Kirk and crew kicks their collective asses, freeing them all, much to Q's dislike.

Fanwanky, I know.

Change Q to Trelane.

Please don't. Trelane was one of the worst characters TOS ever came up with. Literally a semi-ominiscient baby, who spent the entire episode whining and complaining. It was decent enough as a comedic episode of a tv series, but it would be complete crap as a film.

A non-Borg Threatened 24th Century would be interesting.

How about a 'Q Who' type episode with Kirk and crew - They meet up with Q who propells them into the Delta Quadrant to meet the Borg a la Picard style. But instead of getting a bloody nose and running like Picard, Kirk and crew kicks their collective asses, freeing them all, much to Q's dislike.

Fanwanky, I know.

Eh, no reason for Q, TOS had plenty of their own "Q"-like adversaries to choose from that could be used.

They could use Charlie X and have Spock and Uhura singing and playing a tune together (Since that was one of their flirtiest moments in TOS), or as SeerSGB says Trelane, or the Witches from the Halloween episode...

Assuming we're still talking about the main villain of the next movie, and not just some cameo, Charlie X is really the only really decent possibility I can think of. Trelane could never possibly carry a movie. The witches were lame as hell. Apollo and his people were entirely generic and uninteresting (and using them would probably lead to comparisons to Stargate). The Organians and the Metrons were just walking stereotypes of the 'preachy evolved aliens'. Maybe there could be a decent story in the Organian peace treaty between the Federation and the Klingons, but I don't really want yet another klingon movie.

Maybe I'm forgetting someone else here, but I think if they were going to go for one of the 'omniscient' aliens as the main threat, that Q is probably the best choice for it. He was consistently portrayed as a sort of god of mischief, which provides a very solid justification for him actually significantly interfering in the plot that many of the other candidates don't have, and his original menace was only watered down by the fact that he developed an attachment to humanity - something which wouldn't have to happen in the reboot.

I could easily see a story in the idea that the enterprise is returning from it's five year mission to a newly expanded federation which, thanks to its incredible future technology has managed to undercut all its traditional rivals. And then Q shows up and decides that the Federation is 'cheating' with all that fancy technology that their enemies don't have access to, and sets about giving it a taste of its own medicine by handing out tech upgrades to all the empires that hate the federation.