Should Starfleet Intelligence try to destabilize the Dominion?

[Robert DeSoto]

The Founders spent years destabilizing the Alpha Quadrant. They started a war between the Klingons and Cardassians which eventually brought in the Federation. They almost started a war between the Tzenkethi and the Federation. They almost started a Federation civil war by causing a military coup d'etat.

The Dominion's members didn't join willingly, so it's not like they are all one big happy family. And the Jem'hadar are only sent when one of their members misbehave, so they aren't there escorting every ship, or looking over the shoulder of every government official. (Cardassia was different since there was a war going on, but the Karemma are pretty much left alone until they piss off the Founders)

Maybe Starfleet Intelligence agents could convince some of those members to rebel, just like the Cardassians eventually did. It's worth a chance. You risk a few agents, but you could save millions of lives in the Alpha Quadrant. And if the uprising in the Gamma Quadrant was serious enough, the Dominion would have to pull back its massive invasion fleet from the Alpha Quadrant to help deal with it. The whole war might have been averted. And a few Gamma Quadrant species might free themselves in the process (or die trying).

Needless to say, its a violation of the Prime Direction, but that's nothing new to Starfleet Intelligence, especially its Section 31.

So if you were in Starfleet Command, would you authorize this mission?

 

[indolover]

No. The Federation should simply leave the Gamma Quadrant/Founders alone. Why bother them, when a war with them was the most destructive in Federation history? And in truth, a war the Federation was lucky to win.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

Well, Starfleet (or rather, Sec. 31) did infect the Founders with that disease, so at least they did something.

 

[Pemmer Harge]

Not really the Starfleet way, is it? The Colonial Fleet might do that and I'm sure that EarthForce would, but Starfleet? Nah, they're white hats!

 

[Rush Limborg]

I would say--absolutely.

At the very least, it would be a lot more in keeping with Federation Values And Principles than the virus.

Hey--Picard sorta did it with Hugh.

By golly, it could work like a charm for the Dominion.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

Nope. The Feds will frak it up and start another war.

Okay, if you Alpha Quadrant types insist on playing with fire, let's explore the options:

Maybe Starfleet Intelligence agents could convince some of those members to rebel, just like the Cardassians eventually did.

Yikes. And is Starfleet going to come to their aid, guns a-blazin'? Of course not, that would blow the whole game. So you propose a bunch of aliens get themselves slaughtered for the benefit of the Federation. Sorry, the Pakleds aren't a Dominion planet.

It also may be harder than you think to destabilize the Dominion this way. The Dominion makes a point of punishing disloyalty but also rewarding loyalty. Weyoun took his directive to protect Bajor from the Cardassians very seriously, didn't he?

Why should a Dominion world, which benefits from trade alliances and knows how to behave itself to keep things humming along peacefully and profitably, upset the status quo just because a bunch of aliens with suspicious motives show up and start playing "let's you and him fight?"

Nope, here's the way to destabilize the Dominion and stick more or less to Fed ethics: develop a cure for ketracel-white addiction. That wouldn't sever the loyalty of the Jems to the Founders, but it would destroy the chain of command because Vortas would no longer be able to control the Jems. The Dominion military would be hamstrung.

 

[Quinton O'Connor]

Sorry, the Pakleds aren't a Dominion planet.

But what an exciting novella that would make if they were!

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

As always, Temis makes some great points. The only thing is though, I the Jem'Hadar are cured of their white addiction, what's to keep them from still fighting and conquering? After all, that's what they're designed to do. The baby Jem that Odo tried to help only seemed to want to fight. Of course, you could argue that perhaps the white is what keeps them so keen on fighting, but we don't know that for certain.

 

[The_Baroness]

They way to do it, wouldn't be to cure the jems of their white addiction, but as soon as the production facility was built to create the 'Alphas' Section 31 should have been in there, and fiddled with the programming for the new Jem's to prevent them from being loyal to the doms / make them non-violent, whatever the chosen method is.

 

[Robert DeSoto]

Nope. The Feds will frak it up and start another war.

Sorry, I should have made my question more clear. I actually meant this question for any point during DS9's run. Not after the show (and the war is over).

For example, mid Season 5, the Dominion invasion fleet is already in Cardassian space. They are sending convoys of ground troops and more warships. At this point if you could start a revolution in the Gamma Quadrant that was big enough, it would force the Dominion to pull its fleet back from the Alpha Quadrant to put down the rebellion. Obviously starting revolution won't be easy, but what have you got to lose by trying? War is imminent anyway. At most you sacrifice a few Starfleet Intelligence agents.

Okay, if you Alpha Quadrant types insist on playing with fire, let's explore the options:

Maybe Starfleet Intelligence agents could convince some of those members to rebel, just like the Cardassians eventually did.

Yikes. And is Starfleet going to come to their aid, guns a-blazin'? Of course not, that would blow the whole game. So you propose a bunch of aliens get themselves slaughtered for the benefit of the Federation. Sorry, the Pakleds aren't a Dominion planet.

Well the Americans do it, and they don't always come to the rescue of the revolutions they encourage. But I wouldn't call the revolutionaries stupid like Pakleds though.

The Americans do sometimes provide weapons to military forces that fight against a common enemy, even if they are unwilling to come to their aid directly, guns blazing.

This of course would be another Prime Directive violation, but if you get someone like Admiral Jameson, I'm sure he'd authorize a few thousand phaser rifles for the Karemma

It also may be harder than you think to destabilize the Dominion this way. The Dominion makes a point of punishing disloyalty but also rewarding loyalty. Weyoun took his directive to protect Bajor from the Cardassians very seriously, didn't he?

Why should a Dominion world, which benefits from trade alliances and knows how to behave itself to keep things humming along peacefully and profitably, upset the status quo just because a bunch of aliens with suspicious motives show up and start playing "let's you and him fight?"

Dominion worlds know how to behave themselves because they are afraid of the Jem'hadar. Not necessarily because they benefit from trade alliances.

Maybe the Karemma and other Dominion worlds hate the Dominion, but are just too afraid to oppose them. Even if not all the Karemma hate them, there may be political groups that do. Just like The Circle, who wanted Bajor for Bajorans. And the Cardassians encouraged and supported the Circle until it overthrew the government. Maybe the Karemma have their own "Circle" and Starfleet should send them money and phaser rifles.

The Dominion is so huge with so many members. And its a totalitarian regime. There has got to be a bunch of pissed off, disgruntled worlds.

 

[DevilEyes]

Well the Americans do it, and they don't always come to the rescue of the revolutions they encourage.

I don't think that "what would Americans do" is a basis of Federation policy.

Or at least I hope so.

 

[indolover]

The entire Dominion affair was not a black and white one at all. The Founders despised all solids (in my opinion justifiably given their history, but that's by the by here) and on that basis immediately distrusted the Federation as soon as it entered the Gamma Quadrant. To the Dominion, the Federation was the aggressor.

So really, the Dominion engineered wars in the Gamma Quadrant since the Founders saw solids as a threat. imo, the Federation should have mined the wormhole as soon as the Founders were discovered. No Dominion threat, no Klingon/Cardassian war, no Klingon/Federation war, and then no Dominion War.

Besides, which Federation politician would order a de-stablising of the Dominion, which would have undoubted blowback, after the war ended, and so much resources and lives were lost?

The Borg is a cut and dry case. But the Dominion, not as such. I can understand why the Founders distrusted solids as they did, even if conquering other worlds was bad.

 

[blackzoid]

Ya...they could have mined/torpedoed the wormhole at any stage and stopped the entire war from beginning without having to kill anyone/violate the Prime Directive.

Its the elephant in the room for the series. A necessary elephant, but still laughabaly moranic when you look at it logically.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

The only thing is though, I the Jem'Hadar are cured of their white addiction, what's to keep them from still fighting and conquering?

They'd still do it, but unless/until they develop their own officers, they'd be hampered. My theory is that the Founders set in place the Vorta as the officers, and deliberately designed the Vorta and Jems to loathe each other, in order to squelch the possibility that their military could ever rebel against them. The Founders made themselves vital to their military being able to function. Their paranoia at their own servants has forced them to engineer a huge weakness into the system, which Starfleet could exploit.

Sorry, I should have made my question more clear. I actually meant this question for any point during DS9's run. Not after the show (and the war is over).

Ah, that changes things. Since the Feds/Cardies/Rommies kicked the Dominion hive through a variety of bad decisions, there was no going back and Starfleet's best approach is to prosecute the war with everything they've got, including subversion. But subverting the fault lines within the Dominion military inside the AQ seems to be the more profitable strategy vs undermining the Dominion back in the GQ.

American history of inciting but not participating in foreign revolutions really isn't a valid analogy since a) the Feds are supposed to be more evolved than that; and b) there's no undemocratic empire as "smart" as the Dominion on Earth today, or has been in the recent (or maybe even distant) past, in terms of giving their subject peoples good reason not to rebel.

Part of this I guess is that the Founders, Vorta and Jems have no motive to take over anyone's territory to live there personally or interfere with their culture - that's what really seems to set earthlings off.

The Dominion is really quite useful and palatable by imperial-oppressor standards. The Vorta and Jems are like machines that run around keeping order, yet put no burdens on the subject worlds, since they have no appetites that might make them behave badly. They want nothing but to serve the Founders, and if member worlds align their interests with the Founders, the Vorta and Jems are in effect the slaves of the subject peoples of the Dominion as well. Who doesn't want an army of undemanding slaves?

The Vortas and Jems are the most oppressed of the Dominion races! Everyone else has a sweet deal.

Ya...they could have mined/torpedoed the wormhole at any stage and stopped the entire war from beginning without having to kill anyone/violate the Prime Directive.

Oh those poor Rommies, they tried to do just that (in Visionary)! But the Feds had to muck it up, which led to Plan B (joint strike at the Founder homeworld with the Cardies) and then the Rommies and Cardies mucked that up.

To the Founders, it was all just aliens from the AQ attacking them, and they didn't much care that it all happened because the AQ is a bunch of squabbling empires that step on each others' toes. On the contrary, that's the best possible proof that the Founders will be safe only after they get the AQ to be a lot less "chaotic."

 

[Isadorabelle]

Sorry, the Pakleds aren't a Dominion planet.

But what an exciting novella that would make if they were!

I had an image of the Pakleds taking over the Dominion before snickering. And laughing.

 

[DS9 Gal AZ]

"We look for things. Things to makes us go."

Yeah, they could take on the Dominion alright!

 

[PorthosShadow]

No. The Federation should simply leave the Gamma Quadrant/Founders alone. Why bother them, when a war with them was the most destructive in Federation history? And in truth, a war the Federation was lucky to win.

The thing is, The Dominion would have come for The Alpha Quadrant eventually even if everyone stayed away. The discovery of the wormhole and the actions of Commander Sisko only only served to move up the time table on the invasion. So in a way, Sisko got the war done and over with

 

[indolover]

People say that, but when was it established on screen this was the case?

My take on it is this:

- In Archer's time, the Federation launches some deep-space probes, and one of them (Quadros) is sent to the Gamma Quadrant.

- By, say, Kirk's day it reaches the Gamma Quadrant, and the Founders realise that a group of solids called the Federation exist on the other side of the galaxy. As with all solids, they make plans to eventually contact and conquer them.