Should "Star Trek IV" have introduced a different NCC-1701-A?

[Khan 2.0]

wonder what the reaction wouldve been had they used the Ent D for the Ent A...

Probably something along the lines of "What the hell is this?" since Star Trek IV came out in 1986, and TNG came out in 1987.

I think what he meant to say was "What if there was a new model for the Enterprise-A at the end of STIV, and then it was used as the new ship for TNG the next year" (i.e. TNG would be about the crew of the Ent-A, although the filming model itself would have been the same as the D.) At least I think that's what he meant; I could be completely wrong. But with that scenario, basically that would have meant that TNG would have taken place right after STIV, and not in the 24th century 75 years later. The TOS cast could have been gradually replaced by the new cast, and the use of the movie ship models would have been more contemporary. Or they could have set the show five or so years later, with the TOS crew already gone by that point, so the Ent-A would have already had some spacetime logged, have uniform and prop changes made, etc. Also, I don't think that if this scenario actually happened, that the ship would look anything like the D, as it would not have been designed by Andrew Probert but more likely by someone like Bill George.

no i just meant what if the A had been a radical departure from what audiences were used to. But your theory is an interesting one

 

[Lance]

The Excelsior bridge in SFS was terrible. It looked like a garage version of the TOS bridge with the seats from the shuttle on Space Academy wheeled in to make it look more 'spacey'. I look at it as a bridge module meant exclusively for testing, and that it will get replaced if/when the testing ends and the ship receives a commission for regular service.

I've gotta agree. It looks particularly bad because it's so bare. No steps, no interesting angles, all one colour, no sense of depth. It's literally a room with just a couple of consoles and a few chairs. Yeah, it's probably best to see it as some kind of temporary test bridge module that gets unplugged and replaced when the ship goes into regular service.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

^ And why did they have those huge backlit signs next to the turbolift that indicated whatever alert the ship was on? Couldn't they just use lighting for that, like every other ship does?

 

[Brutal Strudel]

The D always looked like a 24th Century luxury liner/oil tanker hybrid to me so I initially preferred the E. Now? Pretty much hate 'em both.

 

[Richard Baker]

I can understand keeping that expensive filming model for the Enterprise-A, but I do wish they had made some small changes externally instead of just altering the NCC number. The Refit was just that- taking old hardware and updating it to newer technologies, the new ship should have taken that one step further since they were starting from a blank slate.
I did think it was a nice touch however when they stepped on the shiny new bridge and you heard a lot of the TOS Bridge equipment sounds once again.

 

[trevanian]

If you just added plant-on detail to the refit for the -A, you'd get complaints like the ones levered at the E-B in GEN, since it is just EXCELSIOR with a few additions. If you messed with the refit's lines, you probably would make things worse. The only part I really don't like is the base of the dorsal, which just looks clunky. I don't love the nacelles either, but it would be some kind of job to tear those off and put nice round or oval ones on, given the structure of the thing is some kind of arc-welded aluminum I think. (American Cinematographer mag from jan 80 has a piece describing how it was built, with pics, if anybody cares.)

 

[Dukhat]

I can understand keeping that expensive filming model for the Enterprise-A, but I do wish they had made some small changes externally instead of just altering the NCC number.

But that would be making changes just for the sake of making them. The A at the end of the registry was all the audience needed to know that this was a new ship. Adding more bumps and fins to the model would have just made it look goofy.

Take the Enterprise-B for example. The reason why it had flares attached to the secondary hull was so that they could be damaged without damaging the rest of the actual model. But the other stuff they changed (the extra huge impulse engines, the nacelle caps with tiny Bussard collectors, the extra fins on the back of the nacelles) was completely unnecessary.

 

[FormerLurker]

I don't love the nacelles either, but it would be some kind of job to tear those off and put nice round or oval ones on, given the structure of the thing is some kind of arc-welded aluminum I think. (American Cinematographer mag from jan 80 has a piece describing how it was built, with pics, if anybody cares.)

As I understand it, it's heavy gauge stainless steel, and quite heavy. The first time ILM went to transport it, the weight blew the axles on their little flatbed, and they had to rent a Caterpillar so they could use the trailer to transport the thing to Skywalker ranch. Supposedly, it also broke Paramount's crane.

 

[Maurice]

No. it's an arc-welded aluminum armature. That's documented in several places. It's heavy model but not THAT heavy.

 

[WarpFactorZ]

I think so. Maybe the Excelsior, rechristened Enterprise-A, or perhaps a new class entirely, something like the "Churchill". (Even though that hadn't been designed yet.)

I too, believe that Kirk should have been given an-Excelsior class ship instead of a Constitution class ship (but then again, I think that there should have been a better script for the fifth movie.)

The could have given Kirk the Excelsior -- or an Excelsior class Enterprise -- and even kept the script for V. What better kind of ship to reach the centre of the galaxy than one equipped with transwarp drive? They could have focused a bit more on Sybok specifically trying to lure the 1701-A to Nimbus III, with the aim of both taking the ship and converting Spock.

The script could have hinged on the fact that tw-drive hadn't been tested in those capacities, or for that duration, etc... and might have had elements of "That Which Survives." (warp 14.1...).

 

[JarodRussell]

Were they already planning TNG by the time TVH was made? If so, I guess they figured it would have been too much to introduce two new ship designs for an Enterprise. The TMP refit and the Galaxy class are clearly recognizable.

I also think they went easy on the ship design budget. ST III introduced at least 4 new starship/starbase models, while ST IV was more concerned with the Probe and the animatronic whales.

 

[Nebusj]

Were they already planning TNG by the time TVH was made? If so, I guess they figured it would have been too much to introduce two new ship designs for an Enterprise.

They were. I remember clipping from the newspapers (ask the Google what those were, kids) about the planned new series. I think I had one from the summer of 1985 about Star Trek: The New Generation; I'm more sure I had one in summer 1986 talking about a series that would be a century and a half after the Original Series and possibly involving one or more descendants of the original cast. I don't know whether that reflected actual planning on the new series at the time, but it does indicate that talk of a New Trek was serious enough to merit Entertainment News reporting.

 

[Captain Nebula]

It was also originally intended for Kirk and his crew to get the Excelsior at the end of STIV for exactly this reason: For any future TOS films, the model would be easier to manipulate for ILM.

Not according to the novels. All the way back to the novel of The Wrath of Khan, Sulu was slated to take command of the Excelsior, after a little training cruise. Then in TSFS, his Captaincy was put on hold over the Genesis Incident.

 

[Hartzilla2007]

It was also originally intended for Kirk and his crew to get the Excelsior at the end of STIV for exactly this reason: For any future TOS films, the model would be easier to manipulate for ILM.

Not according to the novels. All the way back to the novel of The Wrath of Khan, Sulu was slated to take command of the Excelsior, after a little training cruise. Then in TSFS, his Captaincy was put on hold over the Genesis Incident.

Which has no barking on the films since the whole Sulu becomes a captain was a dropped plot from TWOK and stayed dropped in TSFS.

 

[Leto_II]

It doesn't really contradict anything from the films, though; Vonda McIntyre took that whole plot-thread to some interesting places in the TSFS and TVH novelizations despite it getting trimmed out of the release cut of TWOK.

 

[Maurice]

I wouldn't characterize the Excelsior model as a "quickie". It was designed to do what the script required or it and be a shootable model within budget (as Bill George described elsewhere on this board). Let's not unfairly tar it as being less than that.

 

[JarodRussell]

I also doubt that the producers thought "we're doing this so it's easier for ILM in the future". They didn't even hire ILM for TFF, for example.

 

[Brutal Strudel]

I also doubt that the producers thought "we're doing this so it's easier for ILM in the future". They didn't even hire ILM for TFF, for example.

They tried. ILM was too busy working on other films, Last Crusade being one of them.

 

[JarodRussell]

I also doubt that the producers thought "we're doing this so it's easier for ILM in the future". They didn't even hire ILM for TFF, for example.

They tried. ILM was too busy working on other films, Last Crusade being one of them.

Indeed they did, but that's always a risk in business that one of your contractors needs to be replaced.


While I often jokingly say that the recent summer tentpole films always have citywide destruction with crumbling buildings (Superman, Avengers, Into Darkness, etc...), or stuff rising out of oceans (aircraft carrier in Avengers, Enterprise in Into Darkness, alien ships in Battleship, etc...) because ILM already has the scene and simulation files ready to go, I don't really think that scriptwriters wrote those scenes because of that. Because that would be sad.

 

[trevanian]

There's been occasional discussion on this board about ILM's impact on the movies, such as whether a hunk of the deathstar 2 reactor was reused for spacedock's interior and how the alien spaceship in EXPLORERS seems almost like a BoP with the wings torn off in a lot of ways. ILM had license to affect the Nimoy movies very heavily in terms of design, which is probably why a lot of people like them so much (not me.)

ILM was more of a hired hand on TWOK, though they do get the (deserved) credit for coming up with the Genesis tape, which is a lot more interesting than the 'rock turns into a plant' kind of thing originally envisioned.