should Romen Polanski be extradition back to the usa?

[JuanBolio]

Miss Chicken, please forgive Juan. He seems to forget that this is not TNZ.

Excuse me, I was responding to an argument made against my own post in a polite and civil manner, which I have every right to do. I don't ask for forgiveness and would appreciate it if you didn't do so for me.

The concept that death is the worst thing ever imaginable is an erroneous one, imho.

I didn't claim that. Perhaps long, slow torture every day of your life with no chance of it ever ending would be worse. With rape, though, you can get on with your life. Many people do, and live long, happy, healthy lives afterward. With murder that's all taken away.

Would you yourself rather be raped, or executed?

 

[Miss Chicken]

Rape in and of itself doesn't kill anyone. A murderer is worth hunting down. An eccentric film director who drugged and diddled a pubescent girl 30 years ago?

You obviously have never been raped. The effects can be lasting and very damaging.

No, I have never been raped. I do know, however, by use of my keen intellect, that rape does not KILL you. You are alive. You can move on and heal and have a wonderful life. Some people carry the psychological scars a long time, others do not. One way or another, though, you are alive to do so.

The same cannot be said of murder. Hence, murder >>>> rape.

However rape is still one of the most serious non-lethal crimes that there is and we prosecute non-lethal crimes all the time. We give long sentences for some non-lethal crime and quite often we hunt people down for years over such crimes.

This was a serious crime and it is disgusting that Polanski was given the option to plea bargain the crime down to the level it was. He drugged a girl, and raped and sodomised her despite her begging him to stop, he should have got years in prison not just a piddling 90 days. You might refer to vaginal penetration and sodomy as 'diddling'., most people would not.

 

[JuanBolio]

^ It was not my intention to downplay the seriousness of his crime by use of the word diddling. It WAS rape, in every sense of the word. In most cases I'm all for punishing it severely. In this particular case, however, I just don't think it is worth the time and effort, especially given the victim's position. The crime, after all, doesn't really matter to anyone else. Not on that level.

 

[Shaytan]

This was a serious crime and it is disgusting that Polanski was given the option to plea bargain the crime down to the level it was. He drug a girl, and raped and sodomised her despite her begging him to stop, he should have got years in prison not just a piddling 90 days.

Yeps, I don't understand something : the American justice had him and simply did nothing, nothing interesting at least. And what bothers them the most now is not even the crime itself but the escape. Wow, I don't really have the same priorities

 

[Miss Chicken]

^ It was not my intention to downplay the seriousness of his crime by use of the word diddling. It WAS rape, in every sense of the word. In most cases I'm all for punishing it severely. In this particular case, however, I just don't think it is worth the time and effort, especially given the victim's position. The crime, after all, doesn't really matter to anyone else. Not on that level.

I also don't think its worth the time and the effort because of the stupid sentence that was handed down to him in the first place. Why put the victim through the trauma all again just to have him serve 48 extra days in prison for this crime? An huge injustice was done to the victim when he was given such a light sentence and that cannot be undoone. Yes, he might have to serve time for fleeing but that is not punishment for the rape.

 

[Lonemagpie]

No, I have never been raped. I do know, however, by use of my keen intellect, that rape does not KILL you.

Did you consider that there might be a reason, at least in some cases, why they used to call it "a fate worse than death"?

ETA - ah, I see the debate has gone into that.

 

[JuanBolio]

No, I have never been raped. I do know, however, by use of my keen intellect, that rape does not KILL you.

Did you consider that there might be a reason, at least in some cases, why they used to call it "a fate worse than death"?

ETA - ah, I see the debate has gone into that.

I cannot conceive of how rape could be worse than death on any level, no. Unless someone was being raped every day of their life with no hope of it ever ending.

 

[Miss Chicken]

No, I have never been raped. I do know, however, by use of my keen intellect, that rape does not KILL you.

Did you consider that there might be a reason, at least in some cases, why they used to call it "a fate worse than death"?

ETA - ah, I see the debate has gone into that.

I cannot conceive of how rape could be worse than death on any level, no. Unless someone was being raped every day of their life with no hope of it ever ending.

What if someone gets flashbacks of the rape every day?

 

[JuanBolio]

What if someone gets flashbacks of the rape every day?

That would be troublesome, no question about it. I would advise such a person to seek psychological aid in getting that under control. But I'd be glad they were alive to experience life - the good and the bad. If such a person truly believed they were better off dead than having to live with the flashbacks, I would be curious as to why they hadn't committed suicide yet.

As with all things, that goes on a case-by-case basis. People react to things like that in different ways, each according to their own personal constitution and psychology. Some people are over it by the next day, others never fully recover. Even in the latter kind of case, though, the victim is around to take the good in life along with the bad. That's got to be worth something. What is death worth?

 

[Michael Chris]

I think you underestimate emotional pain, Juan.

 

[JuanBolio]

I think you underestimate emotional pain, Juan.

Actually, I think I allow for fundamental differences in people. Some will feel it more, others less or not at all. In all cases though, life with emotional pain is preferable to the eternal nothingness of death.

 

[Miss Chicken]

I think you underestimate emotional pain, Juan.

Actually, I think I allow for fundamental differences in people. Some will feel it more, others less or not at all. In all cases though, life with emotional pain is preferable to the eternal nothingness of death.

Then why do so many people in emotional pain choose to commit suicide? For them living with their pain is worse than dying.

 

[Lonemagpie]

I cannot conceive of how rape could be worse than death on any level, no.

Well, I haven't tried being raped, but I've tried death and it wasn't actually that bad...

 

[JuanBolio]

Then why do so many people in emotional pain choose to commit suicide? For them living with their pain is worse than dying.

I think that is largely because the finality of death is not apparent to them, especially in their particular mental state. I wonder how many of those people, if given the chance to take back their suicide and live out their lives, would do so. I also wonder how much better things for them could have gotten. We'll never know, and neither will they - you can't exactly make an informed comparison beforehand, can you? A rape and the emotional distress it may cause is tragic and awful, but allowing that pain to drive you to end your life is a thousand times worse.

 

[Alidar Jarok]

By that logic, any person who flees the jurisdiction should never be jailed, since their crime happened the past and there are plenty of current people to worry about. Unless you think people convicted of rape have some exemption that murderers (for example) don't have?

Rape in and of itself doesn't kill anyone. A murderer is worth hunting down. An eccentric film director who drugged and diddled a pubescent girl 30 years ago? Not so much. Law enforcement and government have limited resources, and I think they would be better spent elsewhere. Roman Polanski is simply not worth the time, money, and effort.

A couple points. So you would only single out murder? For all other crimes, it's OK if people simply leave the country for a little while and then come back and all is forgiven because "they're old." Or once again, is the rape of a child more forgivable than other crimes? Is the flaunting of our laws in that case better than the enforcement of them?

Also, cost isn't all that significant. There would be no investigation or trial, he's already plead guilty.

 

[JuanBolio]

So you would only single out murder? For all other crimes, it's OK if people simply leave the country for a little while and then come back and all is forgiven because "they're old."

No, if they come back they should be arrested and punished. Roman Polanski is in exile. Let him stay that way.

Or once again, is the rape of a child more forgivable than other crimes?

Not really, no. More forgivable than murder, I'd say, but that's about all.

[/quote]Is the flaunting of our laws in that case better than the enforcement of them?[/quote]I don't believe our laws should extend beyond our borders, no. If there's an extradition treaty, great. If not, we shouldn't try to impose exceptions.

Also, cost isn't all that significant. There would be no investigation or trial, he's already plead guilty.

I think the cost of employing all the people in the State and Justice departments to get him back is fairly significant, especially when they could be working on other, more relevant things. Also there's the cost of his food and upkeep in prison, and out prison system is already overburdened. It just doesn't strike me as worth it.

But as I said, I don't think Polanski is innocent or undeserving of punishment by any stretch of the imagination, and if the victim and/or her family wanted to go over there and settle the score with him in person without any government involvement, that would be fine by me.