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Should novels set in the JJVerse rectify the film's plot holes?

Sure there could be a translation program, but that still doesn't change the fact that it is just damn stupid to rely entirely on technology in order to communicate. IMO you would need to have some sort of a backup in case for some reason that stuff failed. You're not going to wanting to try to fix you're tech while you're all speaking a different language. Hell, we don't even know for a fact that all of the human characters are speaking the same language. For all we know, Picard could be speaking French, Worf Russian, Choudhury one of the Indian languages, and Tryss could be speaking Mandarin.
Bajor was on the fringes of charted space at DS9's beginning - according to the show.
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Yeah, but they obviously knew of and had interacted with the Federation before. And if you are going to interact with someone you tend to learn their language first.
Or since they have the UT they could start to learn it once they have started interacting with them more regularly.
 
JD said:
Sure there could be a translation program, but that still doesn't change the fact that it is just damn stupid to rely entirely on technology in order to communicate. IMO you would need to have some sort of a backup in case for some reason that stuff failed. You're not going to wanting to try to fix you're tech while you're all speaking a different language. Hell, we don't even know for a fact that all of the human characters are speaking the same language. For all we know, Picard could be speaking French, Worf Russian, Choudhury one of the Indian languages, and Tryss could be speaking Mandarin.
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That could be a way to effectively attack the federation - simply disable their UTs.

BTW - the writings on those handheld devices were in english when O'Brien was writing in one of the early DS9 episodes (the one with the virus that made everyone unable to speak properly).

Bajor was on the fringes of charted space at DS9's beginning - according to the show.
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Yeah, but they obviously knew of and had interacted with the Federation before. And if you are going to interact with someone you tend to learn their language first.
Or since they have the UT they could start to learn it once they have started interacting with them more regularly.
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Diplomats would learn the language, at most - not terrorists or monks.
 
ProtoAvatar said:
BTW - the writings on those handheld devices were in english when O'Brien was writing in one of the early DS9 episodes (the one with the virus that made everyone unable to speak properly).
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That doesn't mean anything, since it's just a TV show. I said it before, in many WWII movies Nazis speak and write in English, too.
Heck, I think there were a couple of instances where there were English messages on completely alien non-Federation ships in Star Trek.
 
Alien english handwriting cropped up in VOY: "Blink of an Eye".
Anyone remember that time in DS9 that a random Cardassian computer on a random Cardassian planet spoke in Majel Rodenberry's voice? That was just as bad.
 
KingDaniel said:
Anyone remember that time in DS9 that a random Cardassian computer on a random Cardassian planet spoke in Majel Rodenberry's voice? That was just as bad.
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Are you sure it wasn't Judi Durand, who did the DS9 computer? I think she was the Cardassian computer voice in general.
 
Christopher said:
To an extent, yes. Spelling has certainly become more standardized since dictionaries came along. But pronunciation has continued to evolve, which is why so many words have spellings that seem strange to us today.
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It's always fun in church when there's an older hymn and you run into a pair of words that apparently used to rhyme, but don't anymore.
 
ProtoAvatar said:
That could be a way to effectively attack the federation - simply disable their UTs.
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Really? You actually think the Federation would be that incredibly stupid?

BTW - the writings on those handheld devices were in english when O'Brien was writing in one of the early DS9 episodes (the one with the virus that made everyone unable to speak properly).
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Ok, so maybe he prefers to read in English.
 
I am not even going to lie and say that I read every post in this thread, but I skimmed most of it, and I think the answers to a lot of the plot holes in the new movie are found in the comics associated with it, mainly the Countdown series and the Nero series. I found both to be very enlightening. Countdown ties the new movie into the old universe with characters we know like Picard, Data, Spock, and Worf interacting with Nero and causing the events leading up the movie and the alternate timeline. In the Nero series, we get to see the 25 years that pass after the Attack on the Kelvin and before the Narada attack Vulcan.
 
JD said:
ProtoAvatar said:
That could be a way to effectively attack the federation - simply disable their UTs.
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Really? You actually think the Federation would be that incredibly stupid?
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I was joking, JD:rommie:.

BTW - the writings on those handheld devices were in english when O'Brien was writing in one of the early DS9 episodes (the one with the virus that made everyone unable to speak properly).
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Ok, so maybe he prefers to read in English.
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O'Brien would 'prefer' to communicate with his coworkers (many of whom are aliens) in english rather than 'federation stnadard'?

JD, trek's explanation for why different species understand each other was always the UT - never a 'federation standard' - as I said, THIS was the scenarists' intent.

And this is why you have to fight your way and retconn through contradictions spread through all trek if you wish to support your 'federation standard' ideea.

JarodRussell said:
ProtoAvatar said:
BTW - the writings on those handheld devices were in english when O'Brien was writing in one of the early DS9 episodes (the one with the virus that made everyone unable to speak properly).
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That doesn't mean anything, since it's just a TV show. I said it before, in many WWII movies Nazis speak and write in English, too.
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A valid POV, JarodRussell:techman:.
 
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JD said:
ProtoAvatar said:
That could be a way to effectively attack the federation - simply disable their UTs.
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Really? You actually think the Federation would be that incredibly stupid?
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That's kind of the point I've been making -- that it would indeed be unwise to rely exclusively on UTs for communication with your shipmates, your colleagues, your friends, etc. Even in an age of universal translators, there would still be value in a lingua franca.
 
ProtoAvatar said:
JD, trek's explanation for why different species understand each other was always the UT - never a 'federation standard' - as I said, THIS was the scenarists' intent.
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Ok, I won't deny that, but that still doesn't mean we can't say that there is one. Alot of stuff that was never stated onscreen simply has to be a certain way for things to work. Not to mention that there are alot of things happening in the books now that were probably not the original scernarits intents. Just look at The Good That Men Do.
 
ProtoAvatar said:
JD, trek's explanation for why different species understand each other was always the UT - never a 'federation standard' - as I said, THIS was the scenarists' intent.
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No, not really. At least, it depends on which "scenarists" you're referring to. The concept of the UT was first introduced in "Metamorphosis" as a special device that was used for specific purposes, in this case trying to communicate with an energy being that didn't have the capacity for normal speech. It was depicted at a flashlight-sized cylinder, so it clearly wasn't something that everyone had on their person 24/7, since we'd never seen one in use before.

True, later Trek has retconned the UT into a more ubiquitous device, in order to rationalize Trek's prior and ongoing use of the "every alien speaks English" conceit of sci-fi television. But that just makes it one means for interspecies communication, specifically a means of facilitating communication between species that have never encountered each other before. It is illogical to assume that that precludes every other possible method of communication, such as actually learning another language.

Case in point: Picard and Riker were both shown to gain a fair proficiency in Klingon, actually learning the language itself. Clearly people in the 24th century, particularly in Starfleet, are not lazy idiots who let machines do all their thinking for them, but intelligent, inquisitive people willing and eager to learn new things even if they don't strictly "need" to.
 
JarodRussell said:
OrionField said:
JarodRussell said:
There was also never a mention of bathrooms in Star Trek. Yet we can assume they have one.
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I remember them being refereed to in some of the books as waste extraction facilities
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Damnit, why is it that there's always someone who needs to disagree?! So there was no mention of masturbation in Star Trek then, yet we can assume they do it.
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If we include the books, I think I remember there was being a reference in Destiny to one of the characters taking care of things themself.
 
JarodRussell said:
OrionField said:
JarodRussell said:
There was also never a mention of bathrooms in Star Trek. Yet we can assume they have one.
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I remember them being refereed to in some of the books as waste extraction facilities
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Damnit, why is it that there's always someone who needs to disagree?! So there was no mention of masturbation in Star Trek then, yet we can assume they do it.
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"Red Alert! Commander Riker to the bridge!"

"Just...just a minute..."
 
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