Spoilers Should Mariner have been happy for Boimler?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Lower Decks' started by Charles Phipps, Sep 10, 2021.

  1. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Even weeks after his return, Mariner held an enormous grudge about Boimler leaving her for the Titan. Something that apparently played on her mind to the point she left his digital representation to die in her workout routine (one that didn't contain a Tendi or Rutherford either).

    In "A Embarrassment of Dooplers", we also find out that she's still bothered Boimler left her and expected him to apologize (which he did). This bugs me because she knew it was something that he'd wanted for a long time and made it all about herself.

    I was curious how other people read it as Mariner seems like a friend who is all take and no give.
     
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  2. Michael

    Michael *:・゚✧ . ゜・ Moderator

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    Added spoiler tag to the thread title. Please try to be more wary of spoilers. Thank you.
     
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  3. Ghel

    Ghel Captain Captain

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    I am pretty sure she resented that he left without saying goodbye rather than the act of leaving itself.
     
  4. Kronos

    Kronos Admiral Admiral

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    Remember when Mariner was convinced Barbara Binson was a hologram/shapeshifter/alien parasite? because she didn't want her little pet leaving, she's kind of an awful friend.
     
  5. Tim Thomason

    Tim Thomason Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Mariner has serious abandonment issues. Probably related to why she never mentions or has had an onscreen conversation with her father.
     
  6. lightspeedbear

    lightspeedbear Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

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    She is but I feel like the show goes out of its way to paint her as the hero of the series, at Boimler's expense.
     
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  7. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yup. It's a fascinating look in to her character. Plus, her whole distrust of higher ranking positions. She wouldn't be happy for Boimler because she had a bad experience being promoted.
     
  8. Argosy

    Argosy Lieutenant Red Shirt

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    Now that's an interesting point and it'd be intriguing if they addressed that, but whether it goes a little emotionnaly deeper than a show like this wants or needs to explore, I wouldn't be surprised.

    I think Mariner suffers from toxic loyalty. She could be a real asset and someone who has your back as long as you dance to her tune. In Mariners world everyone else is a set piece, playing a part in the show that is her life. She has a script for how the next scene is supposed to play out and gets upset when people deviate from it.

    What Boimler did was wrong, I think any of us would get the knock if a friend just upped and left without an explanation. I think Mariner was feeling that, but it was also mixed up with this toxic loyalty, which is why things often end up in a bit of a mess.
     
  9. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    My take on the subject that it goes even deeper that Mariner actually assumes that being promoted is a bad thing and thus has been feeding her own problem of being disunited with her friends. Boimler has always stated he wants to go up and out but Mariner dismisses it. So she acts like it's a betrayal and treats her other friend (the Captain) who did it cooly as well.
     
  10. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I mean, Mariner pretty much states as much in the first episode. She's been promoted, seen how it gets in the way of actually doing good things, and finds distasteful. There is probably more to it than that but I definitely think that Mariner holds a level of antipathy for upper ranks, and fears what will happen to her friends if they do get promoted.
     
  11. XCV330

    XCV330 Premium Member

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    I kind of think Shaxs is the hero. Rutherford too. Shaxs died to save the crew and especially Rutherford. Rutherford was willing to die for the crew, and while he didn't die, he lost a huge chunk of his memories. Shaxs, at least, came back (don't know how, but his pah is not weak nor does it disgust me) whole.
     
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  12. The Wormhole

    The Wormhole Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I actually like the fact that Mariner was pissed at Boimler for accepting the promotion to the Titan and "abandoning her." It makes her feel realistic, or at least more realistic than if she decided to be all girl scout about it with the attitude of "well it sucks my friend is gone, but this is a great opportunity for him." Her friend is gone, she's miserable about it, and she doesn't mind letting everyone else know it.

    Some may think that's a horrible attitude for her to have, and maybe it is. But horrible attitudes generally make for more entertaining storylines, especially in comedy.
     
  13. fireproof78

    fireproof78 Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    If Riker can be mad that Deanna was engaged I think Mariner can be mad about Boimler's leaving.
     
  14. JirinPanthosa

    JirinPanthosa Admiral Admiral

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    She wasn't wrong to feel hurt, but was wrong to take it out on Boimler later.

    Mariner surrounds herself with enablers so she can keep just doing whatever she wants and Boimler is enabler prime.
     
  15. Amaris

    Amaris Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Mariner seems to be very insecure about how she represents herself to her friends. She doesn't seem to actually have many close friends because of her personality. She's been around the galaxy, and she's found people who like her so much she's finally comfortable where she is, and when Boimler left it was the equivalent of breaking up the band. It felt like a betrayal.

    Granted, it's not fair of her to hold a grudge against Boimler for wanting to take a chair on the Titan, but when have our emotions ever played fair when it feels like someone we love (whether romantically or platonically) leaves us for greener pastures?

    I think she's a good friend, but the type of friend that only really connects with certain personality types. To use this week's episode as an example, she's the Kirk to Boimler's Spock. They have diverging personalities, but they need each other to function at their best.

    Just my two bits.
     
  16. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Death is rarely final in Star Trek.
    Spock died. Genesis regenerated him.
    Yar died. An alternate timeline restored her.
    Culber died. The mycelium network restored him.
    Weyoun died repeatedly. The Dominion just cloned him again.
    Neelix died. Borg tech revived him.
    Harry died. An alternate version of him replaced him. Naomi too.
    Janeway died 17 times. She just told death to go back to hell.
    And the entire crew of the Enterprise D died multiple times in "Cause and Effect".
    In a book, I think the Borg even managed to bring back Kirk.
     
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  17. Crewman6

    Crewman6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Mariner is a poorly-conceived character who is more often than not written to be a shitty person, so this is par for the course.
     
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  18. Oddish

    Oddish Vice Admiral Admiral

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    Maybe. If not evil, sometimes clueless, like a bull in a china shop. Like with the ambojitsu match, in Mugato.

    And yes, she should have been congratulating Boimler, not threatening him.
     
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  19. Charles Phipps

    Charles Phipps Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    Given that she's written to be a person with deep deep flaws I would argue this is completely false.
     
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  20. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I never thought I'd see the words "Mariner" and "happy" in the same sentence. :lol: