Lucas says on the commentary of ROTJ that Luke is burning his father's body, not some empty armor.
Anakin's training was certainly no less incomplete than Qui-Gon's.
"Vader vanished" is premillennial nonsense best ignored at this point.
Should Kylo Ren have picked a better Sith to idolize?
- Thread starter Turd Ferguson
- Start date
Lucas says on the commentary of ROTJ that Luke is burning his father's body, not some empty armor.
Anakin's training was certainly no less incomplete than Qui-Gon's.
"Vader vanished" is premillennial nonsense best ignored at this point.
Qui Gon was going it alone with the creepy multi-faced priestess thing while Anakin had THREE people on the other side to help him out. I'm picturing the mother of all Rocky training montages. Like Rocky 1 AND 4 back-to-back. All in the blink of an eye because time is an illusion. Especially lunch time. For there are no dry trays on the Death Star.
It's odd, and I don't know why but I always thought Vader's armor was empty as well. Maybe it's the fact that in the mythos of the films built up until that point is that becoming a Force Ghost meant the body vanished, as with Obi-Wan and Yoda.
Now, obviously, with Qui-Gon, it introduces a whole new aspect of Force Ghosting, but I hadn't thought about it too much until then. But, I can see both arguments being made for both Anakin's human body disappearing and being burned. Either way, it doesn't really matter, as Kylo would have still just had an empty helmet.
Now, obviously, with Qui-Gon, it introduces a whole new aspect of Force Ghosting, but I hadn't thought about it too much until then. But, I can see both arguments being made for both Anakin's human body disappearing and being burned. Either way, it doesn't really matter, as Kylo would have still just had an empty helmet.
I think it's safe to say that for the time being, they're letting Filloni handle Ahsoka's story, so it's doubtful she'll appear in anything he's not directly involved with, at least in the foreseeable future. It seems that for now she's been put into the Mystery Box of Ambiguous Fate and probably won't be coming out again for a while at least.
I always assumed Anakin's body was being burned inside the Vader suit. The way I look at it, when Obi-Wan boarded the Death Star (and knowing he would face Darth Vader), he pretty much knew he wasn't leaving with the others. So he had time to prepare for his death. Same with Yoda. Yoda knew he was on his death bed and ghosted immediately after telling Luke his training was complete. In both situations, Obi-Wan and Yoda knew beforehand their deaths were imminent, so they ghost immediately.
Anakin and Qui-Gon, on the other hand, were cut down unexpectedly. I'm sure when Vader threw Palpatine off the bridge, he didn't expect the Force Lightning to have such an effect on his respirator. Qui-Gon was in the middle of a battle with Darth Maul when he was unexpectedly stabbed through the chest. In both of those cases, Anakin and Qui-Gon didn't have time to prepare for their deaths, so their bodies didn't ghost and remained behind until they could return as a spirit.
Qui-Gon did stay alive for a few minutes (or more possibly) at least to tell Obi Wan to train the boy. Not sure how long Obi wan waited for the force field to open to fight Maul or how long he hung in that pit before killing Maul. In all that time Qui-Gon was still alive.
I think the armor was empty, that scrawny farmboy couldn't haul Vader's dead body up a Lambda shuttle ramp.
From the ROTJ script:
137 EXT ENDOR FOREST - NIGHT
Luke sets a torch to the logs stacked under a funeral pyre where his father's body lies, again dressed in black mask and helmet. He stands, watching sadly, as the flames leap higher to consume Darth Vader -- Anakin Skywalker.
In the sky above, fireworks explode and Rebel fighters zoom above the forest.
137 EXT ENDOR FOREST - NIGHT
Luke sets a torch to the logs stacked under a funeral pyre where his father's body lies, again dressed in black mask and helmet. He stands, watching sadly, as the flames leap higher to consume Darth Vader -- Anakin Skywalker.
In the sky above, fireworks explode and Rebel fighters zoom above the forest.
It's worth remembering that this scene was a late addition, hastily conceived and shot at the editing stage when they noticed that it might not be 100% clear to the audience if Anakin was still alive or dead. Luke was supposed to have just left the body behind.
Regardless, since then Lucas and other official sources have been fairly consistent on the fact that Luke burned empty armor. No doubt it's a retcon, but it's hardly the first time and by no means the last.
Regardless, since then Lucas and other official sources have been fairly consistent on the fact that Luke burned empty armor. No doubt it's a retcon, but it's hardly the first time and by no means the last.
Anybody got a link for that?
The claim that the armor was empty is sourced to this book: Star Wars in 100 scenes.
Not feeling it, yet.
Reverend said:
That's incorrect; see post #41. The Star Wars DVDs came out in 2004, and that's presumably the most recent word from Lucas on the subject.
( When Qui-Gon failed to disappear in 1999 the presumed necessary linkage between Force ghosting and disappearing was already shot down anyway. More than that, it indicated that immolation was considered standard practice for a Jedi funeral. The immolation scene on Endor works better if seen in that light - as originally intended, as can be seen from the ROTJ script. Why would you have a Jedi funeral for a discarded set of empty Sith armor? )
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Possibly because it's a mirror of the destruction of the Empire, as the pyre kicks off the fireworks and the celebration across the galaxy?
Maybe Luke felt he needed to destroy the visage of Vader to put it behind him.
Maybe Luke felt he needed to destroy the visage of Vader to put it behind him.
I never understood why anyone thought Vader's uniform was empty. He died on screen, did not vanish, and it is clear the suit is not some flat, loose pile of clothes and armor. The fact Obi-Wan and Yoda vanished at "death" but Vader/Anankin (or Jinn, for that matter) did not is just bad piece of inconsistency in the stories.
If Vader had already ghosted or been removed from the suit, why is his chest so prominently visible in this img
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nbHeqXINBzI/TnN-HEohYPI/AAAAAAAAHkI/49yIUznPOF0/s1600/pyre.jpg
Without a body to support it the costume would not have stood above the edges of the pyre, which were also slightly raised from the table he was laying on. (back of helmet not flush with top of wood)
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-nbHeqXINBzI/TnN-HEohYPI/AAAAAAAAHkI/49yIUznPOF0/s1600/pyre.jpg
Without a body to support it the costume would not have stood above the edges of the pyre, which were also slightly raised from the table he was laying on. (back of helmet not flush with top of wood)
