Should JMS be given credit with Behr, Berman, Piller, Moore etc

[Neroon]

The conspiracy theories that continue to abound, themselves continue to amaze me.

The point that Polaris seems to be making - and I apologize if I misinterpret - is that the author of said joke was more than a struggling writer trying to make a name for himself. He was someone who has more than a passing knowledge of Trek and its makeup. Somebody who has been repeatedly accepted to contribute to the Trek franchise. To take such offense at his humor just does not seem worth the sturm und drang. Humor definitely is at best very subjective, as this thread has proven. Weakness is possibly just as subjective. Neither is an attack on the character of any fan, so why are any of us fans of either series taking such umbrage as if it were? I suppose it's somewhat understandable, given that many of us invest so much time and energy in our fandoms that they almost become part of our character. But it doesn't seem to be worth the energy.

And this is from a Trek fan of long-standing, at least since before most of you here were a glimmer in the Great Bird's - or Great Maker's for that matter - eye. Doesn't make me any more or less of a fan, but it does give me perspective that everything about which we argue over these two most excellent franchises doesn't measure up to what really matters in this life.

Mt. Dew, pepperoni pizza, sex, dutch apple pie, sex, Rush, sleeping in and sex.

 

[Lindley]

Personally, the one I found much funnier was from Voices of Authority, when Ivanova pops in while Musante is trying to seduce Sheridan....

"Good luck, Captain. I think you're about to go where everyone's gone before."

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Therefore IMO it does indeed speak to the B5 makers not knowing anything about the content of DS9...

So, you contend that Peter David didn't know anything about the content of DS9?

That won't hold up under even cursory examination.

OTOH, all the sidewise claims that "they're stealing from us" by the B5 people were ginned up for the sake of attention and they knew it. This is one reason it annoyed so many folks at Trek. Since the spouse of one of the people behind B5 worked in the Trek offices at the time all this was going on, everyone pretty much knew what was up.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Therefore IMO it does indeed speak to the B5 makers not knowing anything about the content of DS9...

So, you contend that Peter David didn't know anything about the content of DS9?

That won't hold up under even cursory examination.

Ah, but he didn't actually write for DS9, did he?

Personally, the one I found much funnier was from Voices of Authority, when Ivanova pops in while Musante is trying to seduce Sheridan....

"Good luck, Captain. I think you're about to go where everyone's gone before."

Now that one was funny. Sort of. (At least it wasn't mean.)

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

Therefore IMO it does indeed speak to the B5 makers not knowing anything about the content of DS9...

So, you contend that Peter David didn't know anything about the content of DS9?

That won't hold up under even cursory examination.

Ah, but he didn't actually write for DS9, did he?

This board and the Internet is chock full of people who didn't write for Trek but are sure they know quite a bit about DS9's content. If that's your criterion, I'm afraid David still has a lot more claim to knowing what he was doing than does anyone here who claims that he didn't.

 

[Lindley]

Then, of course, from the outtake......

Sheridan: "Where's General Hague?"
Major Ryan: "General Hague....is doing Deep Space Nine. It seems he was double-booked by his agent, and there was nothing to be done. You'll have to deal with me, sir."

 

[PKTrekGirl]

In a word... No.

This "controversy" has been debated many times in this forum.

Yes it has.

And kudos to Vash for not clanging this thread.

Well, it's very tempting, let me tell you. I mean, this War Without End crap is beyond old and rarely ends well.

I've left it open because people haven't gotten nasty so far. But given the history of this issue in this forum, I am giving the original poster a friendly reminder: generally, this topic is bad news of the highest order...and for the past few years, has been discouraged on this board. Please do not start another thread on this topic. It is a pointless argument as nothing can be proven either way, and all threads like this do is upset people and cause hard feelings.

Further, if I see ANYONE in this thread intentionally trying to stir the pot between DS9 fans and B5 fans, warnings will abound.

Neroon and I have made a pact of zero tolerance for shit stirring on this issue and have worked very hard to heal the old wounds and have everyone move forward.

I mean Jesus, people - we got TWO kick-ass good shows. It boggles the mind that anyone would COMPLAIN about that.

 

[Neroon]

Personally, the one I found much funnier was from Voices of Authority, when Ivanova pops in while Musante is trying to seduce Sheridan....

"Good luck, Captain. I think you're about to go where everyone's gone before."

Yeah... that was a good one. That phrase is so ingrained in pop culture that nobody ought to be surprised at where it crops up.

 

[Jan]

OTOH, all the sidewise claims that "they're stealing from us" by the B5 people were ginned up for the sake of attention and they knew it.

That's the second or third time you've said basically the same thing on this thread but I've yet to read whatever evidence you base that on. Care to share? If it's an opinion, that's not the way you're stating it.

Jan

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

It's not an opinion, but you'e obviously not required to accept it. You can research it.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

OTOH, all the sidewise claims that "they're stealing from us" by the B5 people were ginned up for the sake of attention and they knew it.

That's the second or third time you've said basically the same thing on this thread but I've yet to read whatever evidence you base that on. Care to share? If it's an opinion, that's not the way you're stating it.

Jan

Jan, I think what he is trying to say is that there was no proof of 'stealing'. And with no proof, it is just an accusation - little more.

But then, that is the problem with this entire topic...and the reason why it's discouraged as a topic of discussion on this board: nothing can be proved one way or the other by either side...and so all that is left is an argument that can never be resolved short of Rick Berman or Ira Behr coming out and stating "Yes - we stole XYZ from Babylon 5". And since that is never gonna happen, and JMS doesn't have any cold, hard, stand-up-in-court evidence....well....

This argument is the Kobayashi Maru scenario of TrekBBS.

Can't be won - by either side.

 

[Jan]

It's not an opinion, but you'e obviously not required to accept it. You can research it.

Oh, I'm very well versed in what was said. My question was concerning the statements that

the sidewise claims that "they're stealing from us" by the B5 people were ginned up for the sake of attention

Emphasis added by me. It seems to indicate that you know something about the "B5 people's" motivations that's not obvious from the posts. Sorry I wasn't more clear.

PKTrekGirl, I do understand that there's no proof of either opinion and I'm not going to pursue that aspect at all. It was just that Starship Polaris mentioned being online at the time of the original controversy that I asked what I did about what s/he knew about motivations.

Jan

 

[MrPointy]

JMS and RDM are probably drinking together in a Vancouver pub as we speak.

 

[PKTrekGirl]

^ Heh.

That's the funny thing. Given as how all of this took place over a decade ago, those guys probably don't even think about it at all anymore.

It is only the fans who seem determined to make themselves miserable by keeping this crap alive over a decade later.

 

[Bill Morris]

Wasn't the basic story of Deep Space Nine based on real events and told by the Prophets to an encarnation of the Emissary named Benny Hill, who wrote it all down in the 1950s, leaving the Star Trek writers only to make up stuff to fill up the time with Ferengi antics, etc. in their teleplays, therefore predating JMS, etc.?

 

[Michael]

Benny Hill

Benny Hill?

 

[Bill Morris]

Okay, Benny Russell. I corrected it above. I'm always in a hurry, and shit happens. Must have confounded that with Barney and Betty Hill. Anyway, credit should go to the Prophets and their scribe Benny Russell.

 

[Angel4576]

Pointless argument. Who cares. We got have two great shows so I'm not too bothered either way.

Behr did alright with The 4400, and Moore has done well with BSG since DS9 ended, hence both have shown that DS9 was no flash in the pan.

Now if they could get JMS and Ron Moore working together on a show, that would be great!

 

[exodus]

Both shows are unique as the are similar.

Instead of denoucing one to make the other look better, why can't we simply celebrate both for what each one added to sci-fi.

These types of debates divides sci-fi fandom when we should be united.

 

[Admiral Buzzkill]

These types of debates divides sci-fi fandom when we should be united.

To what end? Are we going to field a Presidential candidate?

That would be kind of cool. Just not Shatner. Or Jerry Doyle.