Should I give Enterprise another chance?
- Thread starter Ryva Brall
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They can't make a series just to appeal to fans like you. They have to appeal to the general public to make money. TV does not pay for itself.
As for the "look and feel things" not matching up with TOS: it was set a CENTURY before TOS. Things go in and out of style. Aesthetics changes. There were probably several wildly different uniforms in use between Enterprise and TOS. The same goes for ship design, architecture, fashion, you name it.
Canon is about continuity of the subject, not continuity in the ways the subject is depicted. It certainly has nothing to do with nitpicky things like the way the Federation emblem is depicted. It's about the story, not how the story looks or sounds.
As for the "look and feel things" not matching up with TOS: it was set a CENTURY before TOS. Things go in and out of style. Aesthetics changes. There were probably several wildly different uniforms in use between Enterprise and TOS. The same goes for ship design, architecture, fashion, you name it.
Canon is about continuity of the subject, not continuity in the ways the subject is depicted. It certainly has nothing to do with nitpicky things like the way the Federation emblem is depicted. It's about the story, not how the story looks or sounds.
Ehm, no. It doesn't run counter to any of Roddenberry's principles (you can blame Berman for many things but he has always made sure that the stuff he does matches Gene's basic ideas) and while it may violate your vision it doesn't violate mine.
You can hardly base a series on a stupid old non-canonical book. It made much more sense to keep ENT in sync with what came before which was in this case FC. In a Mirror Darkly showed that ENT fitted fairly well into its timeframe, the ship looked older than a Constitution class vessel. You have a nice hypothetical design evolution from the rocket Phoenix to the saucer NX to the Daedalus with an engineering section to the Constitution.
Not that this fanwank matters, the show wasn't good when it emulated stuff from TNG or later from TOS, it was good when it focused on genuine 22nd century stuff, i.e. on itself. Like meeting the Andorians or dealing with pre-enlightement Vlcans.
I agree that ENT should have had simpler technology but you can blame the studio for wanting it to play safe. When Berman wanted to do something new like setting the first season on Earth he couldn't implement it.
Meaning what exactly? I've been a fan since 1966, which is about as far back as one can go. There are many breeds of fans, and not all of them share a mutually inclusive view of the Trek Universe. There are lots of things I found disappointing with Enterprise, but as someone who is willing to give all filmed Trek a chance, I don't try to tell people the show is worthless.
Lenny Nurdbol
Lieutenant Commander
I'm speaking Generally, of course... I never said that All fans think alike or see alike, but for creating a prequel to (drumroll)...Star Trek! They did a piss-poor job... I only sited a few of its many failings, I didn't go into specifics like tackle individual episodes... But if you take the characters and compare them to the characters in earlier series--E's crew are as poorly-developed and cardboard as can be! They are in fact the worst Trek characters Ever! There is just no real chemistry between the crew of NX-01 unlike, say, aboard the original Enterprise, 1701-D, DS9, or even Voyager... On V we saw characters actually change and develop and they were well-rounded... Look at the relationships between Paris and Chakotay and Janeway...and Torres...and Tuvok... I pick V because it's my personal pick for next-to-worst Trek next to E...but at least they Tried with the characters... On E, they're all static... Oh, yeah, of all things out of the blue a "romance" between Trip and T'Pol that was so obviously forced and unrealistic (I've typed in other threads explaining my views on "new" Vulcans, and T'Pol is way out there, too!)... The big problem with E's characters is that they rarely Ever came together and interacted... Sure, we see Archer and Trip, and Archer and whomever; but it's usually always a 1-on-1 stand-alone setpiece... Nothing like the Kirk-Spock-McCoy Relationship of TOS or even Picard's readyroom or lounge meetings where different characters have something to say and contribute... We got None of this in E! And Mayweather...for a guy at the helm, he had Zero development outside one or two forgettable episodes! Captain Archer is as Dry a character as can be, which is a shame since Scott Bakula had proved himself a decent actor on Quantum Leap... So what happened? Not the actors, but the Writers... An actor can only do So Much with generic, crappy lines! And it gets quite tedious week after week when we keep getting more and more of the same from the same old characters... It's like the writers for this show didn't care anymore...and if they don't care, the fans certainly won't care, either...
For a person who supposedly doesn't care... you sure seem to be putting a lot of effort into explaining why you don't care.
Wow, Lenny, that was a lot of writing! 
Lets not look at the fictional world of Star Trek but the reality of making a TV series. The purpose of a TV show is to make money: period. Compromises of course had to be made for "Enterprise" or any new trek series. It's been 50 years since TOS; so a series handicapped with the 1960s version of future technology that we saw in TOS just doesn't hold up for a series today. So what if things are different; this is not real, lol. "Enterprise" gets better with repeated viewing. I'm often curious how many times people who pontificate about how bad the show is; actually watch it (keeping in mind of course that TOS was a failure until it was repeated over and over). In any case I think "Enterprise" is a good show; yes there are some bad episodes but that is true of all the Trek series. I really wish people would focus more on what they like instead of what they don't. Frankly, no one really cares why you don't like it; particularly if they do.
P.S. Not sure how you can say there were no character development or relationships in "Enterprise." T'Pols relationship with Archer is amazing to watch as the show progress and her character development was one of the best in all post TOS shows. Look at where she started off and where she ended at the end of the series. Frankly, the actress did a great job.
Lets not look at the fictional world of Star Trek but the reality of making a TV series. The purpose of a TV show is to make money: period. Compromises of course had to be made for "Enterprise" or any new trek series. It's been 50 years since TOS; so a series handicapped with the 1960s version of future technology that we saw in TOS just doesn't hold up for a series today. So what if things are different; this is not real, lol. "Enterprise" gets better with repeated viewing. I'm often curious how many times people who pontificate about how bad the show is; actually watch it (keeping in mind of course that TOS was a failure until it was repeated over and over). In any case I think "Enterprise" is a good show; yes there are some bad episodes but that is true of all the Trek series. I really wish people would focus more on what they like instead of what they don't. Frankly, no one really cares why you don't like it; particularly if they do.
P.S. Not sure how you can say there were no character development or relationships in "Enterprise." T'Pols relationship with Archer is amazing to watch as the show progress and her character development was one of the best in all post TOS shows. Look at where she started off and where she ended at the end of the series. Frankly, the actress did a great job.
Hate is boring.
Bullshit. Archer, Trip and T'Pol were a fairly blunt copy of the troika from TOS. You can call it lazy and uninspired but not claim that the character dynamics are totally different from the ones from TOS.
And you seriously wanna bitch about Travis? TOS had four Mayweathers, four people who rarely got some spotlight and it was still a good show.
Man I miss those meetings Picard used to have, those were the days..
:: sticks gum under the desk ::
:: sticks gum under the desk ::
Lenny Nurdbol
Lieutenant Commander
For a person who supposedly doesn't care... you sure seem to be putting a lot of effort into explaining why you don't care.
There's a very simple reason for that: I'm a life-long Star Trek fan and have watched All series and taped All series...from start to finish...
I gave E all the benefit of the doubt it deserved... I watched it from "Broken Bow" onwards, taped and analyzed each episode, commented on each... Unlike some, I didn't turn the channel because of the theme music or because of the blue unforms... I gave it a chance... More than enough of a chance and watched all 4 seasons...
I even bought and read all the novels, including the "Romulan War" ones, hoping in some way they'd turn things around and somehow, in some impossible way, justify this series... They didn't... They actually got ridiculous... If a Romulan ship is remotely taking control of another starship, they're helpless? When I was a mere lad in electronics, we had these things called Jumpers we could pull out of a circuit by hand to physically disable it... It's old tech and they couldn't implement something Simple like this on starships?
It never turned around, never really shined particularly brightly... I can only name a couple half-decent episodes such as "Twilight"...but was overall very disappointed... They even did their usual ripoff of "Mirror, Mirror" and I imagine if it made a 5th season, Q would have appeared as well! It was mundane, derivative, but Could have been so much better...had they 1. Listened to the Fans and 2. Got some Original writers rather than recycled their old "writers pool" which slowly killed the earlier shows...
It's like they didn't care because they knew there was a massive fan base of Trekkers out there who'd eat up anything...so they didn't even Try...
Look at that adorable little Wesley, why couldn't we have had one of those in ENT?
Wasn't that the role of Porthos?
If I had been in charge Porthos would have worn a cute little sweater while on away missions.
I thought Porthos was Enterprise's Wesley.
It should be blue with the NX-01 logo on the back!
People would LOVE it and etsy would be filled with handmade doggie ENT sweaters until Paramount crushed them into copyright submission.
People would LOVE it and etsy would be filled with handmade doggie ENT sweaters until Paramount crushed them into copyright submission.
Lenny Nurdbol
Lieutenant Commander
Or Chekov in Star Trek 2009...
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