Should Batman Returned and if so what would you like to see

[Jax]

With the success of The Dark Knight and also with BB the Nolan era has been good for the DC comic hero but do you think the series should carry on hopefully with Nolan, Bale and co...

I think it will and personally I want it too as well despite the fact that no movie in the series could match TDK in numbers or critical praise they still could make 1 or 2 more movies with BB or better reception which would be no bad thing. Personally I keep having this thought about future stories only basic stuff...

3rd movie called "The Batman" with a mob boss with the name The Penguin but nothing like de Vito's character nor Penguins in the sewer thank you. I would have him trying to rebound the failing fortunes of the mob crime in the city and take the fight to Batman who has to cope with the police after him now and maybe even some of the city support gone from him. I would show Wayne Manor mostly rebuilt and a modified version of the tumbler with bike of course. I would prefer to cut down on the love aspect of Bruce's life but would add in a female character who to him is pre catwomen though I would hear inicidents involving such a character behind some high priced thiefs (diamonds, paintings etc). I would also like to see The Riddler a disturbed individual to say the least who could have some similartes from The Joker and could even refer to him and the events of TDK as his inspration for his wave of crime/murders. I am not skilled enough to come up with a great plot but something along the lines of The Penguin helping to kick start a new spree of crime and despite being caught in the end he states Prsion won't hold him forever and he's done what he set out to do. The Riddler can be killed though maybe betrayed by The Penguin since we all know Batman doesn't like to kill. I would also probably have Lucius die off due to the hands of The Penguin who targets Wayne Industries as one way to bring chaos to Gotham, maybe even kill the entire board bar Bruce of course.

I would like to have a connecting story so a 4th film called "Gotham's Knight" featuring Batman facing an uprising of crime due to the 3rd movie's events and The Penguins escape from prison. Have Cat-women play a bigger role though not really an enemy of Batman and I would have her fate at end of movie be left in the air (cat 9 lives sort of reference). I would have Poison Ivy in it too as a sort of female hitmwomen/assassin hired by The Penguin to take down Batman. I would probably have Ivy face off against catwomen in end and meet her demise and also despite the whole no kill I do think making a character like The Penguin someone who even Batman may consider having no choice to kill him as prison wil never stop him. I would consider having pre Robin Dick appear in the movie after seeing his family killed by Penguin's people but have him not know who Batman is and no mention of Robin but could aid Batman at somepoint.

NO BATGIRL of course

What you think and what are your ideas (Braces himself)

 

[Broccoli]

Even though I have been critical of BB and TDK, I wouldn't mind a third go around. With the way TDK ended, it seemed like a good set-up for a sequel. Of course, Nolan says that he currently feels the story he wanted to tell is done, which is interesting, since, I felt, TDK leaves a lot of things dangling.

If they do make a third Nolan directed Batman, I would like to see Penguin. Nolan doesn't seem keen on the character as he claims he wouldn't work in his more realistic world that he's creating for Batman. I find this to be strange as if you look at Penguin from the comics, he is probably the most realistic character there is (with the exception of being short and having a beak-like nose). Also, with the heavy mob element of the first two movies, Penguin would seem like such a natural fit. Maybe not as the main villain, but maybe as a side antagonist.

That being said, Penguin is probably my favorite Batman villain, and I would love to see him done "right" in a movie.

 

[barnaclelapse]

I'd love to see the Penguin in the Nolan version of the Batman universe. I think everyone nailed the whole mob connection, and I really think you could create that character, make him very distinctly The Penguin but not go into Tim Burton territory (as much as I love Batman Returns).

I also obviously want to see The Joker return, and I liked seeing Scarecrow worked into the second film to end the idea that every villain Batman fights has to die at the end.

You could even throw Two-Face into the mix, even though I wonder if that would make things too crowded.

 

[Broccoli]

I'd love to see the Penguin in the Nolan version of the Batman universe. I think everyone nailed the whole mob connection, and I really think you could create that character, make him very distinctly The Penguin but not go into Tim Burton territory (as much as I love Batman Returns).

I also obviously want to see The Joker return, and I liked seeing Scarecrow worked into the second film to end the idea that every villain Batman fights has to die at the end.

You could even throw Two-Face into the mix, even though I wonder if that would make things too crowded.

Well, unless they do a major retcon, Two-Face is dead was specifically said so by the director and actor, and it was written into the script as such.

 

[Icemizer]

I would like to see an all out war for the control of Gothams underworld. Establish the Penguin as just a Casino owner who looks like he is on the up and up but is really a feared underworld figure. Others in the war could be BlackMask, Scarecrow and The Ventriloquist. These Villains would be in keeping with the 'real world' Nolan already intruduced in BB and TDK.

 

[Broccoli]

The interesting thing about doing a Batman 3, is that, I think, it is almost destined for failure (relatively speaking).

In some ways, you would want to top TDK. Do something "bigger", to have more weight for Batman to deal with. People and film makers might say "Okay, we had Joker and he did all that. How do we top that?" I've seen in many film series, when they try to top what came before, they try to far and it ends up hurting the film in the end. Spider-Man 3 can be an example of this.

On the other hand, if Nolan puts together a great movie, but the stakes are not as high as the previous movie, then movie-goers could be very disappointed by it with a "It was good, but not as good as it could have been" feeling. The X-Files 2 could be a (poor) example of that.

I am not saying this will happen with a third Nolan Batman, but it can be a daunting task.

 

[nx1701g]

^ I agree with that. Personally, I think many will see Batman 3 as a let down not because of the story but because of the high of TDK (unless its better).

One of the key elements I think of in the Batman Begins, TDK, Batman 3 universe is the mob connection and it made the films so interesting. I don't particularly see TDK as a Batman film and I see it as more of a mob film in the Batman mythos. If they continue that storyline I think they'll do well.

The Penguin could be an interesting choice to lead the new mob as suggested previously. With the Joker's actions the mob's out of money and he's established himself in Gotham as the newest leader. I would continue with the idea of using the Riddler as well, but I'd make a point of revealing him at the end to be either Mike Engel or Reese who were traumatized by their experiences with the Joker and tried to start over under a new name, but were haunted by what happened and became what they feared. With Reese that had an added advantage because the riddles could be left behind to make the Batman have to solve the riddle of who he is just like Reese solved who the Bat was.

 

[Timby]

Seven or eight years ago, Stax at IGN suggested that Bob Hoskins would be the perfect actor to play a reclusive, mob-boss Penguin.

I fully agree with this, even today.

 

[Admiral_Young]

My third Batman film would be called Batman: Hunted or something in that regard and would depict Batman trying to do his job whlie being hunted by the entire GCPD...I love the final scene of The Dark Knight and Gordon's voice over to his son. The final scenes of both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight are among my favouorite in any movie I've ever seen. I would introduce a mysterious heiress named Selina Kyle who Bruce meets at a fundraiser event for the Wayne Foundation and he becomes attracted to her but is hesitate because he's still greiving over Rachel. A new mob boss has risen and calling himself The Penguin who is trying to pick up the shattered pieces the Joker's chaos leftt behind. Now...this would never happen but I would indeed introduce 12 year old Dick Grayson in the first act of the movie. I would base Dick's use in the film after The Dark Victory and Robin Year One. Bruce would have to deal with all of this along with the sudden new element of being a father. At the end of the movie after Batman's name has been cleared of the Dent charges (it is revealed that Joker killed Harvey Dent and forced him to go beserk after loosing Rachel Dawes) he has a conversation with Gordon who says to Batman "I hear that you have a new partner. I'm curious to meet him." We see a small smirk from the corner of Bruce's mouth "Yes...you will. He's training. You'll meet him soon." Then we pull back as Batman leaps off the roof top and swoops down and we suddenly see into frame a red and yellow figure flying alongside of him....and we fade till black.

I know no one wants to see Robin in the Nolan verse but I love how Dark Victory treats the origin and introduces him into the life of Bruce Wayne. It has the dark tone and seriousness that Nolan has treated the film so far. Batman 4 would have Batman and Robin in it.

 

[CorporalClegg]

^
You lost me at Dick Grayson. He needs to stay away.

 

[Harvey]

I'd rather see an X-Files 2 than a Spider-Man 3. Which is to say, a smaller, more character driven film that is true to the concept though not what everybody wanted or expected to see, as opposed to a film that is bigger for bigger's sake, and loses sight of the characters.

But if Nolan is involved, I expect a third film to be better than either of those examples by a wide margin. He hasn't made a bad film yet.

 

[Caliburn24]

Forget the villains, forget the plot.

What makes BB and TDK head and shoulders above the rest of the Batman franchise and most other superhero movies is that Bruce is a developing character and he has a strong through-line in each movie.

For any third movie to be nearly as good as the first two, it has to impact Bruce, force him to make choices and live with them. Some people have mentioned "redemption" as the possible theme of the third movie. Great, start with that, make it affect Bruce, and then and only then add in the other elements.

 

[Lapis Exilis]

Forget the villains, forget the plot.

What makes BB and TDK head and shoulders above the rest of the Batman franchise and most other superhero movies is that Bruce is a developing character and he has a strong through-line in each movie.

For any third movie to be nearly as good as the first two, it has to impact Bruce, force him to make choices and live with them. Some people have mentioned "redemption" as the possible theme of the third movie. Great, start with that, make it affect Bruce, and then and only then add in the other elements.

Amen. The prevailing theme of the first two movies is that no one man can seize the power that Bruce Wayne has and be able to control the consequences - a third movie would have to continue along those lines.

The mob's done - not only has it been well worked over as a plot device but in-universe, Dent and Joker shattered it. A movie could begin with Wayne settled in with his choices and feeling it is worth it to be hunted to see the mob destroyed. He is driven much further inside himself by the experience with Joker and the deaths of Rachel and Harvey. He's walking a very, very thin line personally and this should be made apparent by his behavior. He is driven at a level not yet seen, careless of his own safety to a point that he is even more terrifying to criminals because he has become the warrior who truly does not care if he dies.

The villain that rises for him to deal with is Rupert Thorne, a true corrupt, corporate monster, more subtle than any mobster, with deep ties into the city and state, even federal government, and Wayne's equal socially, financially and in terms of intelligence. The kind of guy who works entirely through fronts (so you can have whichever of the traditional villains you want - Riddler, Deadshot, Catwoman, Poison Ivy, whatever, and only reveal him as the ultimate villain in the second half) and who, when Batman confronts him with a list of his crimes can merely smile and say, "Oh yeah? Prove it."

The crux of the story should revolve around the question of whether Wayne was ever really in this to make things better, or whether it was just still him acting out on the conversation he had with Rachel in BBegins - revenge is just about making yourself feel better, which he has taken to mean justice is about punishing yourself. The climactic character moment should be whether he is going to punish himself to the fullest, and die for his quest, because dying in such a way would finally remove his guilt - that he lived while his parents (and Rachel, and Harvey) died.

He should then either die, or live, depending on if you want to make it a tragedy or a redemption story. Being Hollywood, obviously it would be the latter. I'm not sure the redemption has to involved redemption in the eyes of Gotham - Batman works much better as an outsider, and his story with Jim Gordon is much more compelling if Gordon is putting himself on the line to continue to work with the vigilante. Batman who is accepted wholeheartedly as a hero by Gotham is just a cop in a silly outfit. Working outside the law is also justified with a villain like Thorne, who can never be touched by the law because he's too connected to government and corporate power.

 

[Admiral_Young]

If we're to progress Bruce Wayne and have the story surround him and impact them then what better way to introduce Dick? I don't understand why people have this great hesitation over Robin. He doesn't have to be done with camp. Has Batman and Robin ruined everyone's opinion on Robin? Dark Victory proved that Dick can be introduced and handled with the same dark angst that Bruce Wayne deals with. Having Dick around as an unwanted obstacle forces Bruce to grow up and deal with the situation that's been presented. Bruce at first wants nothing to do with Dick and basically has Alfred deal with him in my version. Alfred points out the similarties to Bruce and that Dick could be the key to bringing Bruce out of the darkness that has been haunting him. Dick can be a positive influence on Bruce who is at this point in time very much in a dark place with everything that went down in the preivous movie. We don't need to lightened up the flims and camp them up but provide a little fun here and there. I know that I'm in the mass minority but I think it can be done.

I should add that the movie takes place about a year after The Dark Knight and Wayne Manor is restored. Bruce is basically operating alone along with Alfred now that Lucious has cut himself off from aiding him because of the actions with the cell, which opens up the need for Dick becoming Bruce's partner. Bruce realizes that despite all of his will power and training he can't do this alone...he's tried and failed, reminded of Rachel and Harvey, Dick becomes his shining squire and reinforces his desire to be Batman and fight the war on crime. In Batman 4 the movie would focus on Batman and Catwoman. We would finally see a lot more of Bruce's detective skills and a possibilty of the return of Ra's al Ghul at the end or his daughter Taila.

 

[Chrisisall]

The next Batman movie should actually be a Batman/ Superman movie- like the animated one.
Period.
I has spoken.

 

[Aragorn]

I think the redemption angle would work with Catwoman and Riddler. Catwoman would show Bruce that not all criminals are black and white and she may turn out to be his biggest ally. Riddler could be someone brought into to help bring down Batman and turn out to be the biggest bad guy of them all.

 

[DarKush]

I would like to see a wrap up to TDK, perhaps with Two-Face coming back. For one, he didn't get enough screentime in TDK, and two it would solve how to absolve Batman of Dent's murder.

Other villains I wouldn't mind seeing are Black Mask, Deadshot, Hugo Strange, Hush, Catwoman, and Penguin.

Perhaps the storyline can be similar to the one ongoing in the Bat comics right now, with a gang war between Two-Face and Penguin, in part instigated by Black Mask. I would just switch the Black Mask and Two-Face roles. Penguin and Black Mask would be fighting it out in the wake of the Joker's crime spree, and Two-Face would be the X-factor.

 

[Samurai8472]

^ Two-Face is dead. Eckhart said so, the original script too.

Count me in for a third. The 2nd movie left us with some unfinished business

Batman on the run

Batmobile's been destroyed

Cave's not finished

 

[MeanJoePhaser]

Rutger Hauer's character has the potential to comeback and cause trouble, maybe teamed with Talia.

Also, they need to work in Bat-Mite.

 

[Bad Bishop]

^ Two-Face is dead. Eckhart said so, the original script too.

Count me in for a third. The 2nd movie left us with some unfinished business

Batman on the run

Batmobile's been destroyed

Cave's not finished

If the GCPD are seriously going to hunt down Batman next time, their task has been easier now that the Tumbler has been destroyed. Batman blew it up but left the debris behind. Forensic analysis of the twisted, burnt parts would still reveal much about the manufactuer. It should be rather easy to trace the vehicle back to Wayne's company and identify Bruce Wayne as Batman.

Regarding villains for future films, I hope Nolan has a better idea than reimagining Catwoman, Penguin and/or Riddler. Is Batman's rogues gallery really that small?