Ship in a Baffle

[Discofan]

What I found unsettling about the end of the episode was Picard leaving Moriarty in the hands of Barclay.

What I wonder about is what happened to the device after the crash of Ent-D? Did someone remember to pick it up?

I have my doubts when I see how Picard treated the precious antique that his mentor gave him not long before he died.

 

[MAGolding]

I don't think the Trek showrunners would want to get inspiration from their Star Wars rival or its Disney affiliates. Besides, the universe of Trek and the universe of the Disney Channel are in completely different dimensions. The two shall not intersect.

The point is that those episodes featured real remote controlled robots that didn't look too strong or threatening. So presumably it is easy to make such robots in our society and use them in TV episodes. Of course it might have been more expensive to make something like that when TNG ws being produced.

 

[Discofan]

The point is that those episodes featured real remote controlled robots that didn't look too strong or threatening. So presumably it is easy to make such robots in our society and use them in TV episodes. Of course it might have been more expensive to make something like that when TNG ws being produced.

A robot is supposed to be autonomous, not remote controlled. If it's remote controlled then it barely qualifies as automaton, not robot.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

This is a good question. I'm not sure anyone except Noonien Soong ever managed to build a self-conscious, sentient android before ; and that's what Moriarty would have needed as a "physical vessel".
In The Measure of a Man, Data explains he's concerned that Maddox's experiment of dropping his memory banks in a computer database would remove the depth of these memories. That they would just become 0 and 1 with no substance. Which means Data's conscience would never be the same again, that maybe it wouldn't even exist anymore, after a reboot.

That is the main concern with uploading Moriarty's conscience in an android. Since no one except Noonien Soong managed to ignite a sparkle of sentience in an android, any attempt to transfer Moriarty in an android body could have ended up in losing Moriarty completely. It could have failed and crashed. Or Moriarty's code could have been altered and he would have become a series of 0 and 1 without self awareness anymore.

 

[Discofan]

This is a good question. I'm not sure anyone except Noonien Soong ever managed to build a self-conscious, sentient android before ; and that's what Moriarty would have needed as a "physical vessel".
In The Measure of a Man, Data explains he's concerned that Maddox's experiment of dropping his memory banks in a computer database would remove the depth of these memories. That they would just become 0 and 1 with no substance. Which means Data's conscience would never be the same again, that maybe it wouldn't even exist anymore, after a reboot....

I don't think so. Data was probably concerned that Maddox was just too incompetent not to mess everything up and lose those memories for good. He was just too polite and not wanting to hurt the guy's feelings to say so.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

I don't think so. Data was probably concerned that Maddox was just too incompetent not to mess everything up and lose those memories for good. He was just too polite and not wanting to hurt the guy's feelings to say so.

I don't share this opinion at all. Data is polite indeed, but he doesn't seem good at lying. On contrary, he tends to be a bit "too honest" according to human standards. He also proves and says on several occasions (including Data's Day and the novel Immortal Coil) that he greatly respects Maddox's work and that he's willing to help him with his research.

 

[Discofan]

I don't share this opinion at all. Data is polite indeed, but he doesn't seem good at lying. On contrary, he tends to be a bit "too honest" according to human standards. He also proves and says on several occasions (including Data's Day and the novel Immortal Coil) that he greatly respects Maddox's work and that he's willing to help him with his research.

It definitely shows some level of incompetence to think that you can achieve a task when in fact you can't. Maddox thought he knew enough to dismantle Data and then be able to put him back together. Data disagreed with that.

 

[Twilight Phoenix]

It definitely shows some level of incompetence to think that you can achieve a task when in fact you can't. Maddox thought he knew enough to dismantle Data and then be able to put him back together. Data disagreed with that.

Except Maddox was absolutely convinced he was able to do it - and maybe he was ! Data refused to take the risk, so we'll never know for sure if Maddox would have succeeded. According to Immortal Coil, he did create a functional Soong type android years afterwards...
Maddox founded his request to Data on experiments, theorical research and technical knowledge, but of course it was a whole new research program and it may have not worked. This is not incompetence if he had serious elements to prepare his experiment - this is just scientific research. Most research protocols IRL are prepared exactly the same way.
Data refused to take such a risk because he privileged the survival of his conscience over scientific discovery. This is not very different from refusing to take the risk of a very complicated brain surgery : no matter how brilliant the surgeon is, some patients with a brain tumor won't accept to take the risk of having someone open their skull and touch their brain, even if the risk of dying or being disabled is only 1 % .

 

[Marynator]

I agree with TauCygna. I would go further to say that the episode "The Measure of a Man" is an excellent parable for the concept of bodily autonomy (along with "The Enemy"). I really liked the way The Next Generation handled these types of issues in comparison to the later series.

Maddox could have been 100% sure and right, but that still doesn't overrule Data's right to decide what happens to himself and his being.

"The Quality of Life" almost works as a sequel to "The Measure of a Man". Data learned from Captain Picard about standing up for the rights of other beings. He was willing to sacrifice his career, and even his friends' lives because he knew it was right. He learned a lot from his captain!

 

[MAGolding]

A robot is supposed to be autonomous, not remote controlled. If it's remote controlled then it barely qualifies as automaton, not robot.

The remote controlled robot's intelligence would be somewhere in the computer system of the Enterprise, just as Moriarty's intelligence always had been. Which means that he couldn't get too far from the Enterprise, depending on the transmission speed.

Remember that every singe part of every single body is remotely controlled by signals sent along nerves from a brain. Your brain controls your body by remote control.

Is your brain in the tip of your finger? No. But if you pick up a coin, you sense what the fingertip tenses and control it's movements just as well as if your brain was in the tip of the finger. And if you stick your fingertip into a flame you will feel pain on the fingertip just as well as if your brain was in the fingertip. As far as your sensation is concerned, you are just as well off and just as badly off as if your brain was located in the tip of your finger, or in every other part of the body you receive sensations from.

There are creatures whose farthest body part is much less than a single inch from their brain, but the longest sauropods and the longest whales had and have body parts a hundred feet from their brain.

There is logically no difference between sensing and controlling your body with signals sent along nerves, or along copper wire, or by radio signals, or by subspace signals.

Discofan said:

What I wonder about is what happened to the device after the crash of Ent-D? Did someone remember to pick it up?

I have my doubts when I see how Picard treated the precious antique that his mentor gave him not long before he died

Some fans have suggested that Picard put the actual archaeological relic in a museum, or at least in storage on Earth, and kept a replicated copy in his ready room on the Enterprise which he often took into dangerous situations. Thus the copy in Picard's ready room would not be not the real priceless rare treasure. We can hope.

 

[Valenti]

I never understood that episode.

 

[Discofan]

I never understood that episode.

Which one? "Ship In A Bottle"?

 

[Timelord79 (he/him)]

Wouldn‘t it just be a matter of interfacing the holo cube and Moriarty’s matrix with an android’s sensory input and Motorik controls?
Basically Moriarty would still be a hologram, but his holo cube gives him real time sensory input from the android‘s eyes, ears, movement, etc?

 

[Roundabout]

In "Inheritance", we were told that it was possible to transfer a human person's memories into an android brain, specifically the type of android brain that Soong created.

Data's "mother", Juliana -- Soong's wife -- was actually an android who thought she was the real Juliana. According to Soong, he successfully transferred the memories of the real flesh and blood Juliana into the android's brain before the real Juliana passed away.

I suppose the same could have been done for Moriarty. I assume it would be easier to transfer Moriarty's essence to an android body since Moriarty was already artificial, electrical pulses and whatnot.

But the more important consideration would be whether it would be wise to do so, assuming that it was doable. I don't think Picard or anyone else had any obligation to do such a thing for Moriarty. Besides, Moriarty was programmed to be a super mastermind criminal villain. Letting Moriarty loose in an android body would be nuts.

 

[Discofan]

In "Inheritance", we were told that it was possible to transfer a human person's memories into an android brain, specifically the type of android brain that Soong created.

Data's "mother", Juliana -- Soong's wife -- was actually an android who thought she was the real Juliana. According to Soong, he successfully transferred the memories of the real flesh and blood Juliana into the android's brain before the real Juliana passed away.

I suppose the same could have been done for Moriarty. I assume it would be easier to transfer Moriarty's essence to an android body since Moriarty was already artificial, electrical pulses and whatnot.

But the more important consideration would be whether it would be wise to do so, assuming that it was doable. I don't think Picard or anyone else had any obligation to do such a thing for Moriarty. Besides, Moriarty was programmed to be a super mastermind criminal villain. Letting Moriarty loose in an android body would be nuts.

Picard's only obligation was that he gave his word that they would study it and get back to Moriarty once they've found a practical solution, otherwise no obligation at all, as long as he assumes being a deceitful double-tongued bald-headed liar...