• Welcome! The TrekBBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans.
    If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread

I've been thinking about "Honor Among Thieves" and there's something that would have made it the best episode ever. Remember the part when Bilby introduces O'Brien to the very attractive call girl? O'Brien makes up the lame story that he has a girlfriend.

I think it would have been better if he'd have looked at her, fluffed his moobs in disgust, and said, "Ugh. Sharp knees. Would. Not. Hit. It."
 
Well, let's see how much time I have to write these up. I'm about four episodes behind, and I have more and more to say about each one. Let's start with...

"Far Beyond the Stars"

This is clearly a special episode. I don't mean that in the cheesy, Diff'rent Strokes "very special episode" sense, like the one where Gordon Jump shows Arnold and Dudley pornographic cartoons (that one's still burned into my memory 30 years later), but in the sense that everyone involved put just a little more effort into it because they knew it was something different...
I know this is generally thought of as one of the best eps. in Trek history, but I didn't love it. I did like seeing the cast as themselves, but the plot point about Benny possibly being insane didn't ring true for me.

I did love the racial element to the story, though. Thought that rang very true.

From a Trek perspective, I've got a few quibbles. I wouldn't have set it up as a prophetic vision/synaptic potential thingie. Instead, I'd have shifted the focus just slightly, to Jake. Maybe he finds a Benny Russell manuscript, or maybe he finds a reference to the lost work of an obscure sci-fi writer of the 1950s, and then we get the story "told" by the DS9 cast. I'd also cut the preacher character and the references to the prophets, which to me take a little away from Benny Russell. Yes, maybe he's writing about DS9 because he's inspired by the wormhole prophets...or maybe he's just a very smart guy who can see a better future.
BTW, I believe this ep. was first written with Jake in mind.
 
Regarding "Far Beyond the Stars," I think I read somewhere that the powers that be considered ending the show (not the episode, but the DS9 series itself) with a shot of Benny Russell at his typewriter. Does anyone else remember reading about this?
 
Regarding "Far Beyond the Stars," I think I read somewhere that the powers that be considered ending the show (not the episode, but the DS9 series itself) with a shot of Benny Russell at his typewriter. Does anyone else remember reading about this?

I seem to recall it. Bad idea in my opinion. DS9 gets ignored enough as it is. Imagine if it had a "never actually happened" ending. It would give people all the more reason to ignore it.
 
After not writing anything here for a while, I've had a...

"Change of Heart"

Another story with two people trapped on a planet! But before they get trapped, we learn that Dax and Worf actually have some chemistry together.

It's funny that by this point Terry Farrell already knew she was leaving the show, because she does a really good job here. This is a well-plotted story that draws on what we know about Klingons and Worf and Dax in particular. Kinda sucks for the double agent and the rest of the Alpha Quadrant, but I guess those are the breaks.

So in the big picture of how a military organization works, this doesn't make a lot of sense, but as an hour of drama it works fine.

Yes, this was a rush job, but I've got a lot of these to get through and not much time tonight.
 
And now an episode with a really long title...

"Wrongs Darker Than Death or Night"

Nice use of Shelley there, I guess. I think that the writers got Kira mixed up with O'Brien, because all of the sudden the kind of stuff that happens to him is happening to her. Surely finding out that Dukat regularly banged your mom--and that your mom liked it--has to be the core of an excellent "O'Brien Must Suffer" episode.

But no, they did this to Kira. And it's the kind of moral ambiguity that was clearly a hallmark of the show. At the end, I didn't know exactly who to empathize with, which was the point.

It's a really creepy episode, since it centers around Dukat's abduction of--then seduction of--Kira's mom, and we know that Dukat's had a thing for Kira. That's makes him giving Kira's dress to his daughter all that much creepier. There's really no limit to how creepy this episode can get.

It's well done, though, with great acting by Nana Visitor, who makes me believe in the underlying emotional truth of what she's going through.

I wonder if it ever crossed Sisko's mind to use the Orb of Time to get Jennifer off the Saratoga before Wolf 359? Naturally he couldn't succeed...or could he?

Here's my random bit of Nana Visitor content: during the credits, the Defiant zooms by just as her name comes up. And there's a definite "V" on the deflector or whatever that thing of front of the ship is. V for Visitor?

Another really strong episode.
 
I wasn't expecting a Spanish...

"Inquisition."

By which I mean, I think I learned why we don't get a ton of Bashir-oriented episodes. He just doesn't seem to have that extra oomph that Kira, Quark, Odo, and O'Brien have.

This is another episode that could have happened to O'Brien. Accused of being a traitor? Unlawfully detained? Subjected to a thorough holographic mind-fucking? These are all things that, I think, have already happened to O'Brien in one form or another. And now they're happening to his best buddy.

I thought of something funny. Back when Bilby asked him his girlfriend's name, how awesome would it have been if O'Brien had said..."Juli...um...Juliana!" He does see a lot more of Julian than he sees of his wife...or either of his kids.

There's a twist to the whole thing--Luther Sloan (what a great villain name!) wants Julian to play spy for real. But Julian doesn't want to, for reasons that remain somewhat obscure. After all, he fantasizes about this stuff all of the time, and and second-best friend on the station is a Cardassian spy. Added to his augmented-ness, and you get the feeling that he'd be feeling superior enough around everyone else to think that he should belong to a group like Section 31.

All I can say is I'm really glad that Deep Space Nine is the kind of show where morality is all black and white, and the heroes make decisions based on an inerrant sense of right and wrong. It's very important--very, very important--that the viewer should always know who the good guys and the bad guys are, and should never, ever, blur the lines between the two. I shudder to think of what that would look like.
 
All I can say is I'm really glad that Deep Space Nine is the kind of show where morality is all black and white, and the heroes make decisions based on an inerrant sense of right and wrong. It's very important--very, very important--that the viewer should always know who the good guys and the bad guys are, and should never, ever, blur the lines between the two. I shudder to think of what that would look like.
nuBSG?:shifty:

Seriously tho', this is an interesting paragraph, considering what's coming up.
One blurs the line so much, you may as well re-title the show Deep Gray 9, while the other goes to such an extreme the other way, you're left longing for the subtlety of TOS's ...Battlefield.
 
It's funny that by this point Terry Farrell already knew she was leaving the show, because she does a really good job here.

Did she? My memory is a bit hazy, but what I recall is that her departure was a very last minute thing, to the point that they had already written the finale and had to hastily re-write it at the last minute to include her death.

There's an upcoming moment in "The Sound of Her Voice" that strongly suggests they were aware of her departure by that point, though.
 
In the MA article, she says that she knew she was leaving. She didn't want her character killed off, but said that if the producers were going to kill Dax off, they should have done it here.

And the paragraph that Skyonee quoted was written with tongue firmly in cheek. I'd just seen the episode immediately following "Inquisition" when I wrote it.

Time permitting, I'll share my thoughts on that episode later.
 
Well, at last I've got time to dance...

"In the Pale Moonlight"

After this episode ended, I turned to my wife and said, "This is DS9's 'Counterpoint.'" That's our favorite VOY episode, and (I think) a great example of smart, serious, suspenseful Trek (well, except for Kashyk's tendency to stand with his hands on his hips, but you can't win 'em all).

This was such a good episode that not only do I want to watch it again tonight; I actually don't want to watch any more episodes because I don't want the memory of this one to recede.

If you've been reading this, you know that my tastes run to two extremes: comic farce and intense psychological studies. I can appreciate episodes with other elements, but those are the ones that I really, really enjoy watching, either because they're entertaining or because they're absorbing.

It's difficult to figure out how to start talking about ITPM. I'll just throw out a few thoughts. First, this is by far the strongest Avery Brooks episode I've seen yet. He really nails Sisko here and does the kind of physical acting whose absence earlier in the series I lamented. You get the sense that this is a real man, sitting in a real room, talking to himself.

Which is another reason why it works: like "Waltz," this is really a two-actor drama that is nearly a stage play. It plays to all of Brooks's dramatic strengths perfectly. At first, when he looked into the camera, my "breaking the fourth wall" alarm went off, but I insist that he didn't break the fourth wall because he never really talked to the audience. He was talking to the computer, or himself, and we just were eavesdropping. Now, if he had said, "And a Happy Christmas to all of you at home," that would have been another story.

Instead, him looking directly into the camera made him seem more vulnerable and more accessible, as did having him slowly take his clothes off throughout the episode. (And that's one sentence I never thought I'd type.) You feel like you're really looking into his soul.

Andrew Robinson is also brilliant, playing perfectly off of Brooks. The other characters are great, too, but this is really about those two.

Like all great "moral" episodes, the "right answer" isn't so clear-but here. I'm not sure that there even is a right answer. Whatever Sisko does, he's doing something wrong. Even if he keeps his conscience clean by not dirtying his hands with Garak's scheme, he'll have to think, every Friday, that he could have saved lives if he'd have done something. Sisko is no Hamlet; he decides on a course of action and follows it through.

There are a lot of great little touches here. For example, when he quotes his dad, he really captures that actor's cadences. It's kind of eerie. And then little throwaway lines like bad news coming in the middle of the night.

We both LOLed at "it's a faaaake." I'd heard that soundbyte long ago, so it was funny to finally hear it in context. But it didn't ruin the episode at all.

The final cut to black just after Sisko says "erase that entire personal log" is the cherry on top of a brilliant episode. I've got a new favorite DS9 episode, and this one just bumped something out of my Top 5 All-Trek list.

But what do you think about it?
 
Glad you loved In the Pale Moonlight as much as I (And probably everyone else) do. There have been a couple of episodes I really love but you hated where I've been utterly suprised someone could hate those episodes, and was kind of worried you'd somehow hate In The Pale Moonlight.
 
But what do you think about it?
Hm, I'll just quote myself from my own re-watch thread:

Me!
Okay, we all know how this one plays out. But damn... Who remembers when that first aired, huh? For most of '98, there'd been this overhanging doom on DS9. Things just weren't going well for Our Heroes, leading us to In The Pale Moonlight, where we were promised something significant was going to occur. With the somber narration from Sisko, all leading up to the immortal "It's a fa-a-a-ake!", you just had this sense of, of...

"This is it. This is where things hit totally rock bottom. There's no where else to go but 'up'." After all, why else would Sisko be so forlorn? His plan had backfired, and now the Federation was certain to lose. What chance could they-

Vreenak's ship... was sabotaged? Oh... my... Didn't see...

Do you feel that? That tingling running down your spine? It happens when you realize you've just been fed one of the greatest twists Trek has ever seen. Do you feel that? The quickened breath of excitement? That this isn't just some one-off twist for the sake of a clever episode, but one that drastically effect the way this series plays out from here? Do you feel that? Adrenaline surging, as you hear Garak explain everything, and Sisko confirming that, yes indeed, the Romulans are now a significant factor in the war? And yet, do you feel... that. The cold chill across your skin, as Sisko's final words send us into black.

It just doesn't get much better than this, my friends, Roddenberry's "vision" be damned.
 
But what do you think about it?
Find out in three months! :D


Seriously, I think it's the finest episode of Trek ever produced even though it's also the most anti-Trek of them all. It's one of those episodes where everything just works and you end up with something magical. It's a fantastic character study, it has what I consider to be Trek's best moral dilemma, and it has a twist that's flawless in its execution. Sisko may be the central character, but this is also Garak's finest moment. His initiative saved the Alpha Quadrant single handedly, I bet you never thought that would be the case back in the early seasons. ;)

The final scene where Sisko struggles to convince himself that he can live with his actions is one of my favourite TV scenes of all time, I can pretty much recite it from memory. Superb stuff.
 
I like "Far Beyond the Stars" a little more, but there's no denying that "In The Pale Moonlight" is a great episode of television.
 
But before they get trapped, we learn that Dax and Worf actually have some chemistry together.

...

It's funny that by this point Terry Farrell already knew she was leaving the show, because she does a really good job here. This is a well-plotted story that draws on what we know about Klingons and Worf and Dax in particular.

I always thought that just as these two were really getting some good chemistry, she had to go and get herself killed. I think having her die in this episode would have been better than the way she did die, though. Worf's a little "off" as it is, just imagine what a wackadoodle he'd be having to live with the idea that Jadzia died because he couldn't save her.
 
If you are not already a member then please register an account and join in the discussion!

Sign up / Register


Back
Top