It's 'Ferengi Comedy Episode' bad. They're their own special blend of bad.
Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread
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"Ties of Blood and Water" made me cry like a baby when I saw it...such a POWERFUL episode. You are absolutely right about the actors' relationship. When you read Lawrence Pressman's bio, it becomes especially clear why this story must have spoken to him. He lost family in the Holocaust that was never accounted for, so that aching he displays for Iliana and his family isn't coming out of nowhere.
As far as the ailment goes...I agree that at least by our standards, a timeline that precise isn't right.
That said, since I wrote fanfic involving Tekeny Ghemor, I had to come up with an explanation of that disease, and found one class of diseases that really does have such a bizarre degenerative progression involving many disparate symptoms in different body systems: autoimmune disorders, in which the immune system decides that certain parts of the body are the "enemy" and goes after a person's organs as though they were a disease.
This is the class of diseases including rheumatoid arthritis and lupus...and then there's this less common, very aggressive one, that reads a whole lot like Yarim Fel Syndrome. Read the disease stages...look a little familiar?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churg-Strauss_Syndrome
In truth I don't think the writers thought it out that well, but that does at least demonstrate that a plausible explanation can be based on real life without invoking anything that hasn't been seen on Earth. Such diseases also tend to be very, very complicated in their genetic profiles, rather than "simple" to detect like Huntington's disease and Duchenne muscular dystrophy, and given that at least in the 21st century we can't determine if someone will come down with RA or lupus or the like by genetic analysis in most cases, it is possible that something like Yarim Fel syndrome (if it has the cause and pathology that I suggest) could fly under the DRADIS.
Ties of Blood and Water is indeed a very powerful episode. And I agree that the scene with Sisko, Dukat and Weyoun in Quark's is comedy gold.
As for Dukat being on the station - he's always been a very hands-on type of commander. To me, it makes sense that he would be the same way now that he's a political figure.
As for Dukat being on the station - he's always been a very hands-on type of commander. To me, it makes sense that he would be the same way now that he's a political figure.
Plus, a chance to flaunt his newfound title and status, to act in an official capacity in front of the likes of Kira and Sisko not as a lowly captain of a Klingon ship, but as the "legit" head of the Cardassian government?
No way Dukat would pass that up.
^ I like that explanation. We know that he was desperate to impress Kira at one point and he really does like to go on about himself. It works for me.
"Yikes" is what I say to Ferengi Love Songs. It's one of those "hilarious" Ferengi comedy episodes, so it depends on how you feel about them.
But unfortunately for you, the worst Ferengi episode (perhaps worst episode ever) is still to come.
^ Nah, he's already past DS9's worst offering. And the worst episode ever isn't even in this series.
Though, I will admit, the one you're referring to is indeed DS9's second worst.
Though, I will admit, the one you're referring to is indeed DS9's second worst.
And the worst episode ever isn't even in this series.
Though, I will admit, the one you're referring to is indeed DS9's second worst.
I meant worst DS9 episode ever.
For my money, that which shall not be named is at least tied for worst with "Move Along Home" and "Let He Who Is Without Sin."
Well, I actually watched...
"Ferengi Love Songs"
Maybe it was because I wasn't paying very close attention, but it didn't seem that bad. Oh, it was definitely a bad episode, but it seemed to know it was bad.
And it was nice seeing Jeffery Combs as Liquidator Brunt. Combs plays a great villain. Why don't I see him in more movies? Or more TV, for that matter?
The B-story with Rom and Leeta was kind of predictable and annoying, but luckily they wrapped it up quickly.
I just don't have a lot to work with here. My three-year-old looked at the TV when Quark was on and said, "He's got big ears."
That's my single-sentence review for this one.
"Ferengi Love Songs"
Maybe it was because I wasn't paying very close attention, but it didn't seem that bad. Oh, it was definitely a bad episode, but it seemed to know it was bad.
And it was nice seeing Jeffery Combs as Liquidator Brunt. Combs plays a great villain. Why don't I see him in more movies? Or more TV, for that matter?
The B-story with Rom and Leeta was kind of predictable and annoying, but luckily they wrapped it up quickly.
I just don't have a lot to work with here. My three-year-old looked at the TV when Quark was on and said, "He's got big ears."
That's my single-sentence review for this one.
I agree that there's not much to talk about with this one. I've made my feelings on Ishka clear in this thread already, so I won't go there, as I'd just be rehashing the same points.
Aside from the ridiculousness of having a powerful interstellar political leader hiding in Quark's bedroom closet, this episode doesn't offer the same kind of annoyance or downright terrible quality that many Ferengi episodes do. It's very middle of road for this type of episode.
Aside from the ridiculousness of having a powerful interstellar political leader hiding in Quark's bedroom closet, this episode doesn't offer the same kind of annoyance or downright terrible quality that many Ferengi episodes do. It's very middle of road for this type of episode.
That's actually mentioned by one of the writers or producers (I forget who) in the official Companion book. They were saying that the episode has to surrender its seriousness at that point, for better or worse, because it's just too surreal. It would be like coming home to your mother and finding the President of the USA hiding in your closet, who then reveals that he and your mum have been seeing each other in secret. As the guy is quoted as saying in the book, it has to be a non-serious episode from then on...
Ya know, it's seriously embarrassing being "caught" watching one of the Ferengi episodes by non-fans, but, as long as you don't get caught doing it, most of them really aren't that bad, if you just accept them for what they are.
About the only other thing I think of that is as embarrassing to be caught watching is Ivanova's Sex dance in Babylon 5.
I just finished rewatching S1, and really, "Move Along Home", I think is the only awful episode, there's a few mediocre ones, but, only the one awful one. And I don't understand why the Lwaxana/Odo episode gets such a bad rap, I thought it was great, and it's definitely Lwaxana's best appearance I can recall, the comaraderie between her and Odo is fantastic. Odo so embarrassed by not being able to hold his shape, and Lwaxana exposing herself by taking off her wig for him, incredibly emotional, considering how vain she is about her appearance. And of Course, Duet, I believe is the best S1 episode.
About the only other thing I think of that is as embarrassing to be caught watching is Ivanova's Sex dance in Babylon 5.
I just finished rewatching S1, and really, "Move Along Home", I think is the only awful episode, there's a few mediocre ones, but, only the one awful one. And I don't understand why the Lwaxana/Odo episode gets such a bad rap, I thought it was great, and it's definitely Lwaxana's best appearance I can recall, the comaraderie between her and Odo is fantastic. Odo so embarrassed by not being able to hold his shape, and Lwaxana exposing herself by taking off her wig for him, incredibly emotional, considering how vain she is about her appearance. And of Course, Duet, I believe is the best S1 episode.
Same here. Oh, and her "God sent me" speech.
Watched Episodes 2.1 - 2.4 Last night, The Circle Trilogy is as awesome as I remember it being. Episode 4, the other Trill stealing Dax, I didn't pay much attention to, so maybe didn't give it a fair shake, but, I wasn't overly impressed. I'll rewatch it tonight or over the weekend and see if paying closer attention makes it any better.
Why do the Bajoran Political and Religious episodes in S1 and S2 get such a bad rap? I mean you've got Kai Opaka, Louise Fletcher (Wynn is a thoroughly enjoyable manipulative sneaky bitch), Frank Langella, Steven Macht, Steven Weber, Dukhat alot of the times and I believe I recall other guest stars that are awesome as well. I realize many don't like Bariel, but, funny thing is, his portrayal is alot like Sinclair's in S1 Babylon 5. Some people love Sinclair and thought B5 lost something when he left while others thought Sinclair weighed down S1 and he actually turned them off the Series, though, it seems no one loves Bariel.
@Admiral Shran, really? I don't recall cringing at Ivanova's "God sent me" speech. I'll have to remember that next time and see how bad it must sound out of context.
Why do the Bajoran Political and Religious episodes in S1 and S2 get such a bad rap? I mean you've got Kai Opaka, Louise Fletcher (Wynn is a thoroughly enjoyable manipulative sneaky bitch), Frank Langella, Steven Macht, Steven Weber, Dukhat alot of the times and I believe I recall other guest stars that are awesome as well. I realize many don't like Bariel, but, funny thing is, his portrayal is alot like Sinclair's in S1 Babylon 5. Some people love Sinclair and thought B5 lost something when he left while others thought Sinclair weighed down S1 and he actually turned them off the Series, though, it seems no one loves Bariel.
@Admiral Shran, really? I don't recall cringing at Ivanova's "God sent me" speech. I'll have to remember that next time and see how bad it must sound out of context.
It was awful, IMO. I'm not a fan of the character of Ivanova to being with - easily my least favorite B5 character. And Christian isn't exactly the best actor either, IMO. But the speech itself was bad, bad, bad - from the delivery which left a lot to be desired to the fact that it was clunky as all get out. I think it would have worked fine in a novel, but on screen when you have to watch someone say it - it's just so unnatural. That's a big problem I have with JMS. He seems much better at writing novel and comic book dialogue (which can get away with being more stilted) than he is at writing TV dialogue.
Dude, Ivanova's "God sent me" speech is kick-ass, and her sex dance is hilarious! I am not ashamed to admit to loving either of those things.
And damn it, I like the Odo/Lwaxana dynamic too! I have no shame!
And damn it, I like the Odo/Lwaxana dynamic too! I have no shame!
Now I get to see a couple of...
"Soldiers of the Empire"
I really liked this episode. Martok gets to do some interesting stuff, with a lot more complexity than we usually see from Klingons. It's a great episode for Worf, too, and we're actually building on the stuff that happened back when they were in prison.
I'm shocked that, at last, a Trek episode is acknowledging that previous traumatic events can affect someone's psyche. Yeah, we had a little bit of Borg stuff with Picard when it was convenient (well, there was a lot of it in FC), but this just feels a lot more natural.
I wasn't wild about Dax here, but it didn't ruin the episode for me.
Back to the teaser: Bashir said something that hammered home how they've destroyed Roddenberry's utopian ideals. We are to believe that, by the 24th century, not only will the Federation not have super-advanced carpet-cleaning techniques, but that they'll actually stop using Resolve as well? I've gotten blood off my carpet with a little Resolve and some scrubbing--it's discouraging to hear that Bashir apparently doesn't have access to it.
Seriously, I always believed that the janitorial sciences were going to continue to improve. Yet here we are to believe that they're going to decline. Bummer.
Of course, I can already see the Treknologists out there ready to post that Klingon blood has compounds that are Resolve-resistant or something. I'll concede that's possible. But couldn't they just use the transporter to lock onto the Klingon biomatter embedded in the fabric and transport it out? Cleaning carpets should be a one-second job in the future--you shouldn't even have to move furniture. But instead we've got poor Bashir working the SteamVac for hours.
Oh, back to the episode. I loved the resolution, with Worf pulling a Riker (from that episode where he served on the Klingon ship) on steroids. He was willing to sacrifice his life to redeem Martok. I truly believed in the emotional truth of that.
"Soldiers of the Empire"
I really liked this episode. Martok gets to do some interesting stuff, with a lot more complexity than we usually see from Klingons. It's a great episode for Worf, too, and we're actually building on the stuff that happened back when they were in prison.
I'm shocked that, at last, a Trek episode is acknowledging that previous traumatic events can affect someone's psyche. Yeah, we had a little bit of Borg stuff with Picard when it was convenient (well, there was a lot of it in FC), but this just feels a lot more natural.
I wasn't wild about Dax here, but it didn't ruin the episode for me.
Back to the teaser: Bashir said something that hammered home how they've destroyed Roddenberry's utopian ideals. We are to believe that, by the 24th century, not only will the Federation not have super-advanced carpet-cleaning techniques, but that they'll actually stop using Resolve as well? I've gotten blood off my carpet with a little Resolve and some scrubbing--it's discouraging to hear that Bashir apparently doesn't have access to it.
Seriously, I always believed that the janitorial sciences were going to continue to improve. Yet here we are to believe that they're going to decline. Bummer.
Of course, I can already see the Treknologists out there ready to post that Klingon blood has compounds that are Resolve-resistant or something. I'll concede that's possible. But couldn't they just use the transporter to lock onto the Klingon biomatter embedded in the fabric and transport it out? Cleaning carpets should be a one-second job in the future--you shouldn't even have to move furniture. But instead we've got poor Bashir working the SteamVac for hours.
Oh, back to the episode. I loved the resolution, with Worf pulling a Riker (from that episode where he served on the Klingon ship) on steroids. He was willing to sacrifice his life to redeem Martok. I truly believed in the emotional truth of that.
I must admit I'm not a fan of that speech, though B5 did have some good speach's though mostly by G'Kar.
Soldiers of the Empire is a pretty solid episode with great development for both Worf and Martok. I see you weren't too impressed with Dax either - you're approaching the true faith my son, come closer.
I especially think this line is *funny*....
Yeah, Dax, I'm sure Worf is hating every minute of it. The man is probably in paradise.
Klingon blood. It's very aggressive.
Well, that's Andreas Katsulas for you. He could literally read a phone book and make it dramatic.
I especially think this line is *funny*....
Yeah, Dax, I'm sure Worf is hating every minute of it. The man is probably in paradise.
Klingon blood. It's very aggressive.
Well, that's Andreas Katsulas for you. He could literally read a phone book and make it dramatic.
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