Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread
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Hey, me too...
Well, in view of those last few posts, I'll be a little...
"Defiant"
and say, "Yeah, what was going on with that?"
I didn't find anything on MA that explains it, but I'm sure someone here will have an answer.
As best I can imagine, it's either:
A) Will Riker had a beef with O'Brien, and Tom knew this, so he acted pissed off so he didn't blow his cover.
B) Tom Riker had a beef with O'Brien. Maybe he hates all transporter guys on principal now.
C) Tom Riker didn't want to sucked into small talk with O'Brien where it would become plainly obvious he wasn't really Will (Dax almost blew his cover early on). So he pretended they had a beef.
Really, does anyone know what the deal is?
As far as the rest of the episode goes, I thought it was great. Frakes really brought something to the table as Tom Riker, though he did the classic Riker lean-in while walking through at least one doorway. We got plenty of Grinning Riker and Grumpy Riker in the same episode, so I can't complain.
And Gul Dukat showed up and got lots of development. I think that Sisko was a little too immediately sympathetic to him missing out on taking his son to Six Flags Cardassia, but that doesn't detract from what we learned about the tensions between the Obsidian Order and Central Command. They might have made Dukat a little too in-the-right here--I'd like to have see him continue to be at least a little evil--but in general I like it. I again got to see that vaunted Cardassian complexity.
The realization of the space battles via video screen was a bit of a let-down--it looked like a video game, and I actually found myself laughing when the outpost was destroyed.
This was just a really solid episode with three great guest stars--the Obsidian Order commissar had a small but well-played part, in addition to Riker and Dukat. I'd have no problem watching a lot more like this.
Reading MA I'm disappointed to hear that they never followed up with freeing Tom Riker. I definitely would have like to have seen more of him. Also, the idea of Riker in a prison camp has a precedent in TrekLit, in Peter David's Q Squared (I think that's the novel). So it would have been interesting to see how they referenced that, if at all.
It would have been funny if Sisko told Dukat to go ahead and take his son to Six Flags Cardassia. "Don't worry, I'll text you if anything happens--go ahead."
I liked this one a lot. Kept me interested the whole way through.
"Defiant"
and say, "Yeah, what was going on with that?"
I didn't find anything on MA that explains it, but I'm sure someone here will have an answer.
As best I can imagine, it's either:
A) Will Riker had a beef with O'Brien, and Tom knew this, so he acted pissed off so he didn't blow his cover.
B) Tom Riker had a beef with O'Brien. Maybe he hates all transporter guys on principal now.
C) Tom Riker didn't want to sucked into small talk with O'Brien where it would become plainly obvious he wasn't really Will (Dax almost blew his cover early on). So he pretended they had a beef.
Really, does anyone know what the deal is?
As far as the rest of the episode goes, I thought it was great. Frakes really brought something to the table as Tom Riker, though he did the classic Riker lean-in while walking through at least one doorway. We got plenty of Grinning Riker and Grumpy Riker in the same episode, so I can't complain.
And Gul Dukat showed up and got lots of development. I think that Sisko was a little too immediately sympathetic to him missing out on taking his son to Six Flags Cardassia, but that doesn't detract from what we learned about the tensions between the Obsidian Order and Central Command. They might have made Dukat a little too in-the-right here--I'd like to have see him continue to be at least a little evil--but in general I like it. I again got to see that vaunted Cardassian complexity.
The realization of the space battles via video screen was a bit of a let-down--it looked like a video game, and I actually found myself laughing when the outpost was destroyed.
This was just a really solid episode with three great guest stars--the Obsidian Order commissar had a small but well-played part, in addition to Riker and Dukat. I'd have no problem watching a lot more like this.
Reading MA I'm disappointed to hear that they never followed up with freeing Tom Riker. I definitely would have like to have seen more of him. Also, the idea of Riker in a prison camp has a precedent in TrekLit, in Peter David's Q Squared (I think that's the novel). So it would have been interesting to see how they referenced that, if at all.
It would have been funny if Sisko told Dukat to go ahead and take his son to Six Flags Cardassia. "Don't worry, I'll text you if anything happens--go ahead."
I liked this one a lot. Kept me interested the whole way through.
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It's definitely got to be C. That thing drives me bonkers as it does most people.
And yes, Kira never does see Tom again. On-screen, anyway. It's one of just a few little nags about DS9's continuity. There really aren't many and this is the one I think gets noticed the most. All in all it's a pretty good show about that sort of thing.
I hadn't realized you were MAing stuff. Hopefully you don't read any future spoilers that way by accident!
And yes, Kira never does see Tom again. On-screen, anyway. It's one of just a few little nags about DS9's continuity. There really aren't many and this is the one I think gets noticed the most. All in all it's a pretty good show about that sort of thing.
I hadn't realized you were MAing stuff. Hopefully you don't read any future spoilers that way by accident!
I'll be interested to see what you think as you see more of Dukat. Personally, I'm glad to see you were feeling a bit queasy at that...
I enjoy Dukat in all his iterations. But... let's just say I concur with Nerys nevertheless.
Definitely this one. You can tell from Tom's facial expression when he first sees O'Brien laying on the floor that he's thinking "Oh shit, someone else who knew Will. I better think fast!"
And I concur about Dukat's characterization in this episode. I love that he's so multi-dimensional, but here they may have gone a little bit to far in making him sympathetic. This is, after all, a very evil person and his personal charm can only go so far.
All in all though, an excellent episode.
Not trying to be an ass or anything, but I just don't understand why some people can't see the obvious about the situation - obviously he's just trying to get rid of him.
^ I for one wasn't sure if they were referencing something that I had forgotten. It's not necessarily that T. Riker's blow-off was unbelievable (it made sense), but that I thought that maybe they had heat together from an episode of TNG or something.
And when I have time later this afternoon, I'm going to have a ball talking about...
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcusNKhRSeg&feature=related[/yt]
And when I have time later this afternoon, I'm going to have a ball talking about...
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xcusNKhRSeg&feature=related[/yt]
Prolific science fiction television reviewer Jammer (weird way to start a sentence) has often declared that "Fascination" is the worst episode of DS9 for a long time. I don't agree with him. Myself, I'm actually in that rare percentile of viewers who find it perfectly... middling.
My word choice was a bit faulty up there. When I said "for a long time" I meant up until the rare-yet-much-maligned stinkers of the fifth and sixth years, "Let He Who Is Without Sin..." and "Profit and Lace". As in, he actually found "Fascination" much more offensively bad than anything before it.
For my money, Shatnertage has already passed three of the five worst -- "Move Along Home", "Second Sight" and "Meridian". And some other rather iffy episodes from the first couple of seasons like "If Wishes Were Horses" and "Paradise", of course.
For my money, Shatnertage has already passed three of the five worst -- "Move Along Home", "Second Sight" and "Meridian". And some other rather iffy episodes from the first couple of seasons like "If Wishes Were Horses" and "Paradise", of course.
Ah, okay then. There's no way Fascination competes with Let He Who Is Without Sin... (my pick for the worst) or Profit and Lace for last place.
I can understand that. If you can't remember the O'Brien-Riker dynamic from TNG (which is very limited) it might make this scene hard to follow.
My point is that there have been countless people (I can't tell you how numerous they are) that have "Option C" explained to them and yet still adamantly refuse to believe it. They INSIST that Will Riker must have had a problem with O'Brien.
I can understand that. If you can't remember the O'Brien-Riker dynamic from TNG (which is very limited) it might make this scene hard to follow.
My point is that there have been countless people (I can't tell you how numerous they are) that have "Option C" explained to them and yet still adamantly refuse to believe it. They INSIST that Will Riker must have had a problem with O'Brien.
Well, I haven't seen any of those yet, though they do pique a certain...
"Fascination"
I will not deny it. I really liked this episode. Yes, it wasn't a complex psychological study or an exploration of societal social ills. But it was fun.
To me it's a lot like ENT: "A Night in Sickbay," in that if you consider it within the regular continuity of the show, it might mess some things up, but if you consider it as taking place in a parallel universe and just enjoy the ride, it's a lot of fun.
As someone who's been vomited on by my offspring, Molly's greeting to O'Brien was awesome.
And it raised a question that I made a note of to ask: is Molly the first person to canonically vomit in Star Trek? I don't remember anyone throwing up onscreen (or even it being alluded to) in TOS, though I'm not sure about TNG. I'd be curious to hear what people think--this is the kind of trivial minutiae that I occasionally find fascinating.
Back to the story--you knew this was going to be a comedy when Lwaxana showed up. At least I hoped it would be a comedy--I find her dramatic stuff pretty tough to sit through ("He's only SIXTY!") but I love her comedic work. And this one doesn't disappoint. It's patently obvious from the start that everyone's being affected by some kind of alien contagion, but that doesn't make it any less amusing.
For those who find Lwaxana annoying, I'd counter that Keiko is way, way more annoying. That first "Mi-les" just put my teeth on edge. And the episode did seem to gloss over their very real marital difficulties. But that's all in the game, I guess.
Being a fan of the hairstyling and clothes, this was actually a good episode. Kira's hair looked much better than it usually does, and her non-uniform outfit was nice. Dax's was absolutely striking, though. Even Sisko got to wear a form-fitting shirt that proved he'd been spending some time in the gym.
I thought everyone did a nice job of playing lovesick. But this episode was kind of like the first Lwaxana Troi episode, "Haven," in that my perceptions of it hinged on something close to the end.
When I saw "Haven," at first I thought the episode absolutely sucked, that they were just throwing really annoying stuff at us to see if we'd flinch. Then Mr. Homn busted out with, "Thanks for the drinks," and it all clicked. This was supposed to be funny.
It was obvious this was a comedy from the start, but the thing that made it a great comedy was the final party scene, particularly when Bariel tries to beat up Sisko and Sisko goes Neo on him, batting away the punches in slow motion. Then when Dax knocks him out...that's when I was convinced this was great stuff.
The kicker was Quark stepping over Bariel and saying, "Commander, you throw one hell of a party."
Bashir and Kira get an honorable mention, as well.
So this wasn't necessarily a deep episode, but I can't say that I disliked watching it. Unlike "Meridian," when I was constantly looking at my DVD player to see how much time I had left, I enjoyed seeing this one play out.
"Fascination"
I will not deny it. I really liked this episode. Yes, it wasn't a complex psychological study or an exploration of societal social ills. But it was fun.
To me it's a lot like ENT: "A Night in Sickbay," in that if you consider it within the regular continuity of the show, it might mess some things up, but if you consider it as taking place in a parallel universe and just enjoy the ride, it's a lot of fun.
As someone who's been vomited on by my offspring, Molly's greeting to O'Brien was awesome.
And it raised a question that I made a note of to ask: is Molly the first person to canonically vomit in Star Trek? I don't remember anyone throwing up onscreen (or even it being alluded to) in TOS, though I'm not sure about TNG. I'd be curious to hear what people think--this is the kind of trivial minutiae that I occasionally find fascinating.
Back to the story--you knew this was going to be a comedy when Lwaxana showed up. At least I hoped it would be a comedy--I find her dramatic stuff pretty tough to sit through ("He's only SIXTY!") but I love her comedic work. And this one doesn't disappoint. It's patently obvious from the start that everyone's being affected by some kind of alien contagion, but that doesn't make it any less amusing.
For those who find Lwaxana annoying, I'd counter that Keiko is way, way more annoying. That first "Mi-les" just put my teeth on edge. And the episode did seem to gloss over their very real marital difficulties. But that's all in the game, I guess.
Being a fan of the hairstyling and clothes, this was actually a good episode. Kira's hair looked much better than it usually does, and her non-uniform outfit was nice. Dax's was absolutely striking, though. Even Sisko got to wear a form-fitting shirt that proved he'd been spending some time in the gym.
I thought everyone did a nice job of playing lovesick. But this episode was kind of like the first Lwaxana Troi episode, "Haven," in that my perceptions of it hinged on something close to the end.
When I saw "Haven," at first I thought the episode absolutely sucked, that they were just throwing really annoying stuff at us to see if we'd flinch. Then Mr. Homn busted out with, "Thanks for the drinks," and it all clicked. This was supposed to be funny.
It was obvious this was a comedy from the start, but the thing that made it a great comedy was the final party scene, particularly when Bariel tries to beat up Sisko and Sisko goes Neo on him, batting away the punches in slow motion. Then when Dax knocks him out...that's when I was convinced this was great stuff.
The kicker was Quark stepping over Bariel and saying, "Commander, you throw one hell of a party."
Bashir and Kira get an honorable mention, as well.
So this wasn't necessarily a deep episode, but I can't say that I disliked watching it. Unlike "Meridian," when I was constantly looking at my DVD player to see how much time I had left, I enjoyed seeing this one play out.
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