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Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread

I really like "Civil Defense" myself. Mostly for the humor of the Cardassians and the Quark/Odo pairing. And it was nice to see Ben be more proactive - I think his background in engineering is supposed to be showing through here. I can see where definite criticism comes from - the whole setup is kinda bizarre and I don't even remember the resolution.
 
Ah, Civil Defense, one of my sentimental favorites. I love Dukat's pre-recorded messages!

I've heard rumors about "Meridian," but I've wanted to experience for myself just how bad it might be, so I don't know anything specific. Having seen a lot of things DS9 does right--and wrong--I'm curious to see just what has people so bothered by this one.

Right now, "If Wishes Were Horses" is my yardstick for DS9 suckitude.

I'm assuming that Move Along Home is right above it?

GREATLY looking forward to seeing your reaction to the abysmal Meridian.
 
I really like "Civil Defense" myself. Mostly for the humor of the Cardassians and the Quark/Odo pairing. And it was nice to see Ben be more proactive - I think his background in engineering is supposed to be showing through here. I can see where definite criticism comes from - the whole setup is kinda bizarre and I don't even remember the resolution.

The resolution is fairly forgettable, isn't it. I only remembered it just now. :lol:

Otherwise, this is a very fun episode to watch. I love every second of it. It's.. just fun + a bit of Garak and Dukat to make it awesome.

Ah.. Meridian. I wonder what you'll make of that.
 
Yardstick for awesomeness=all of "Duet," Garak talking to Quark about fashion from "Profit and Loss."
 
I prefer a few second-season outings over "Duet". Wait, no, just a couple. "The Wire"... oh hell, that might be the only one.

There are some episodes that are close. But damn, "Duet" is sweet.
 
I just want to dampen the expectations for Meridian's suckitude. Taken as a whole it's not that bad, it's just that it fluctuates wildly between brilliance and catastrophe.
 
I've heard rumors about "Meridian," but I've wanted to experience for myself just how bad it might be, so I don't know anything specific. Having seen a lot of things DS9 does right--and wrong--I'm curious to see just what has people so bothered by this one.

Right now, "If Wishes Were Horses" is my yardstick for DS9 suckitude.

Personally, I would say that "If Wishes Were Horses" is worse, because as awful as "Meridian"'s A-plot is, it's all-too-brief B-plot is, oddly enough, extremely memorable and a series highlight for a lot of people.
 
And that's a load of crap. We're sentient beings, we may not be able to prevent the urges but we can damn sure overrule them if we choose to. Plenty of human beings right here on Earth have anger issues that stem from their genetics, but that doesn't give them a right to act on their violent impulses because "it's who they are". No, they get that shit under control or they go to prison.

The Jem'Hadar do not have anger issues, nor are they human beings. They are genetically designed to enjoy killing. It was important for Odo to accept that fact by the end of the episode and he did, even though he was lagging far behind the others in his acceptance. I do not wish to derail this thread but please do not dismiss my opinion as a "load of crap." Feel free to PM me; we can have a more engaging discussion one on one.
 
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"Civil Defense"


Why didn't they just have Dukat's ship beam the reactor away from the station? Or just fire on the station until its shields fell?

Slight spoilers here regarding DS9's shields...

I just wanted to point out that thanks to the Dominion threat, the station's defenses have slowly been beefed up to the point where by now, it probably takes at least several Galaxy class starships to take down DS9's shields.
 
^ About that...

I'm pretty sure that's not until Way of the Warrior because they make a big deal about it.
 
Civil Defense - I like it, though it does have it's flaws.

In its defense, it's got Garak, Dukat, Odo and Quark together and Dukat's recorded messages. Pretty much anything with Garak is GOLD. Dukat almost never disappoints. Odo and Quark together are always memorable.

Against it, it's got the fact that it's a rather generic adventure story that could have easily been done on TNG or VOY - the ship gets infected and the crew have to fight the ship to survive, only here it's a remnant of the Occupation that gets them in trouble.

What elevates it is the fact that they used that generic idea to let several of the characters play off each other - Odo and Quark, Dukat and Garak, Dukat and Kira. Dukat's reaction to Kira's threat to destroy the station is very well acted. You can tell there's a lot going on under the surface when he says "would you allow two thousand people aboard this station to die simply because you don't like.... ..... us?" Also, they have pretty much everyone involved in solving the problem - unlike TNG or VOY, where only one or two main characters would save the day.

Overall, it's a fun little adventure with great character interplay.
 
"If Wishes Were Horses"...it's all-too-brief B-plot is, oddly enough, extremely memorable and a series highlight for a lot of people.[/QUOTE]

well it does give us our first appearance of Jeffrey Combs: DS9 Legend!! :bolian:

does he hold the DS9 record for actor playing the largest number of characters? the one from Meridian, Brunt and Weyoun? Are there more he plays?
 
Well, I finally made it through...

"Meridian"

This one wasn't nearly as bad as I thought it was going to be. The A story was pretty limp, but the B-story was actually pretty good.

Well, to be precise the A-story didn't make sense on any level. Why didn't all of the colonists just leave Meridian with the Defiant? In the Trekverse, there is a nearly infinite quantity of empty M-class planets awaiting settlement. I just don't get why they wouldn't get off the planet and go somewhere else. Seems a lot easier to move 30 people than to screw around with a star. Which they really shouldn't do anyway, since it's a unique natural phenomenon, and "fixing" it makes the galaxy a little less wondrous.

The other A-story, Dax falling in love with the spot-curious guy and choosing to stay with him, made even less sense. It's completely implausible that someone as centered as her would do that. They lampshaded that at one point by having her say that after 300 years she was ready to do it, but still. It's just ridiculous.

Now the B-story...that had some real potential. Jeffery Combs was awesome! I don't even know his character's name--I just kept calling him "Jeffery Combs." Real seeds of a comedy gem there, with him tasking Quark with getting him some KiraPorn. There are worse kinds of HoloPorn to be caught with in Trek--remember when the Doctor found Seven's stash of ChakotayPorn? It was well-played by Combs and everyone else involved, especially Odo. I loved his shock at the beginning, when Kira declared he was her lover.

But doesn't she already have a Naked Dream Boyfriend guy? Vedek Bariel? Who's probably got some time on his hands since he's not Kai? Not for the dramatic purposes of this episode, she doesn't.

And I loved the final reveal of Quark's "creation." Brilliant pan up the body...to Quark's head.

Inspired by another Jonathan Frakes-directed episode, "Sub Rosa," I'd say that even the A story works on a certain level. My theory about "Sub Rosa" is that Frakes directed it as a deliberately comic pastiche of the gothic romance genre. "Meridian" kind of works the same way for more generic romance novels, though you don't have stock Scottish characters or granny sitting up in her coffin to make the comedy as obvious.

I wish they had added one more scene of the B-story: Odo and Kira entering a holosuite that's running the KiraPorn program. It would have been about as awesome as the Goddess of Empathy bit from "Hollow Pursuits." I would see HoloKira as being into bondage and kinky punishment stuff, though. It would have been fun to see how far they could have pushed it.

If I was given this script, I would have said to toss the entire A-story and just use the B-story as the basis for everything, Maybe Jeffery Combs is also running a smuggling operation that Odo's trying to break up, which would give him something more to do. And maybe something that Quark does causes a drain in the station's power supply, which would involve O'Brien too. I'd have kept the ultimate resolution the same, but just added a few false turns and some more holodeck stuff. Maybe the first time Quark uses the holofilter he gets Odo instead. Or Quark just keeps on coming up with different ruses to get Kira to "pose."

So altogether it was a bad episode, but that B-story made me laugh.
 
^ Yeah. There's a bunch of episodes I found boring or just dislike, but that's really the only one that I wanted to tell to go fuck itself. Rumplestiltskin? Seriously?
 
I'm not sure if anyone mentioned this in the thread (I skimmed while playing catch-up) but it was originally going to be a leprechaun until Colm Meaney was like "LOL NO" because he felt the initial script was really offensive. Ended up switching to Rumplestiltskin, which is... also stupid.
 
^ Yes, I've heard that, and I suppose I'm grateful to Colm for saving us from that, but the end result was just as awful, but in a slightly less offensive way.
 
So altogether it was a bad episode, but that B-story made me laugh.
The Dax story is so wretched, I can't even bring myself to skip through it just to watch the B-story. I must skip the episode altogether to save my sanity.
 
I'm with you, Sykonee. That Dax story is the worst thing that happened to DS9 aside from "Move Along Home" as far as I'm concerned.
 
I'm with you, Sykonee. That Dax story is the worst thing that happened to DS9 aside from "Move Along Home" as far as I'm concerned.
Well...
Quark having a sex-change and wearing drag ranks pretty high up there too.

And yes, Shatnertage (in case you clicked this for some reason), it does happen!:scream:
 
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