I enjoyed this ep. a lot. I generally like the eps. featuring the Ferengi. They're a silly break from more somber stories & a chance to learn about their race.
Shatnertage's Mostly-1st-Time Watch Thread
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The thing about the Elaysians is, I think they got the body type wrong. At the risk of sounding pedantic (but hey, if I can't sound pedantic reviewing Star Trek shows on a Star Trek website, where can I?), I thought Melora should have been considerably taller and more slender than the average human. After all, her people evolved on a low-g planet, so they should have more gracile physiologies, right?
You could do it with CGI today, but I'm sure that was way out of the budget back then.
You could do it with CGI today, but I'm sure that was way out of the budget back then.
Even if they could have done it, which is doubtful, it would have gone against Rick Berman's Law which states that virtually all aliens on Trek must be just Humans with something on their foreheads.
In fact, this "law" is the reason why Andorians and Tellarites never appear in TNG, DS9 or VOY (well, Andorians appear a few times in TNG, but only as momentary background characters). Berman felt that their makeup looked "silly" and "unconvincing."
Call me crazy, but I would have loved to see those races in the 24th century, even if they didn't look as good as they did on ENT.
In fact, this "law" is the reason why Andorians and Tellarites never appear in TNG, DS9 or VOY (well, Andorians appear a few times in TNG, but only as momentary background characters). Berman felt that their makeup looked "silly" and "unconvincing."
Call me crazy, but I would have loved to see those races in the 24th century, even if they didn't look as good as they did on ENT.
If that was an actual Berman rule, I'm thankful he didn't interfere with the Cardassians! 
After seeing a really good episode, I've come to accept that maybe the duds are a...
"Necessary Evil"
Again with the bad titles. This one sounds like a Chuck Norris movie. But it's actually quite the noirish thriller, with Odo playing the Bogart role. And it's a way, way more ambitious episode than I'm used to seeing, with several flashbacks telling the story of a parallel investigation. The best part is, it really delivers.
I loved the noirish feel of this one--you had Vaatrik, the femme fatale, and the flashbacks to the Cardassian days were suitably dark. In flashback Kira you had another femme fatale, with Dukat as the menacing authority figure who knows more than he lets on, and Odo as the sharp investigator who knows less than most of the other players, but figures things out as he goes on. Very Maltese Falcon.
I wonder how much work it took for them to stage the usual sets to make them look sufficiently Cardassian. They definitely turned the lights down, which worked really well.
Without a doubt my favorite moment was when Odo pulled a Columbo while interviewing Mrs. Vaatrik. When he started moving to the door, I said to my wife, "I hope he does a Columbo," then he did the turn and, "There's just one more thing...." Freaking awesome. I read on MA that the writer also wrote for Columbo, and it was a great homage, made all the more poignant by Peter Falk's recent passing.
It was interesting to see Odo's first meeting with Dukat (well, second meeting), Kira, and Quark--there's nice foreshadowing in all of them. It seems obvious to me that this is where he started to develop feelings for Kira.
Even Rom gets to step things up. Turns out he's a total prodigy. He also makes a great whine/moan/scream sound.
The only thing I would have changed would have been having Quark's eyes closed when he was comatose. Something about them open made it look kind of silly.
But this was, for me, just about a perfect episode. At first I was afraid it was going to be the usual "someone gets taken over by an alien and commits a crime"-type investigation, but it turned out to be an actual human story (ironic again, since none of them, were human) that was well played by everyone.
"Necessary Evil"
Again with the bad titles. This one sounds like a Chuck Norris movie. But it's actually quite the noirish thriller, with Odo playing the Bogart role. And it's a way, way more ambitious episode than I'm used to seeing, with several flashbacks telling the story of a parallel investigation. The best part is, it really delivers.
I loved the noirish feel of this one--you had Vaatrik, the femme fatale, and the flashbacks to the Cardassian days were suitably dark. In flashback Kira you had another femme fatale, with Dukat as the menacing authority figure who knows more than he lets on, and Odo as the sharp investigator who knows less than most of the other players, but figures things out as he goes on. Very Maltese Falcon.
I wonder how much work it took for them to stage the usual sets to make them look sufficiently Cardassian. They definitely turned the lights down, which worked really well.
Without a doubt my favorite moment was when Odo pulled a Columbo while interviewing Mrs. Vaatrik. When he started moving to the door, I said to my wife, "I hope he does a Columbo," then he did the turn and, "There's just one more thing...." Freaking awesome. I read on MA that the writer also wrote for Columbo, and it was a great homage, made all the more poignant by Peter Falk's recent passing.
It was interesting to see Odo's first meeting with Dukat (well, second meeting), Kira, and Quark--there's nice foreshadowing in all of them. It seems obvious to me that this is where he started to develop feelings for Kira.
Even Rom gets to step things up. Turns out he's a total prodigy. He also makes a great whine/moan/scream sound.
The only thing I would have changed would have been having Quark's eyes closed when he was comatose. Something about them open made it look kind of silly.
But this was, for me, just about a perfect episode. At first I was afraid it was going to be the usual "someone gets taken over by an alien and commits a crime"-type investigation, but it turned out to be an actual human story (ironic again, since none of them, were human) that was well played by everyone.
Well, it's certainly one of the best...but I would imagine that 'many' would probably give the top honors to
The Wire.
Necessary Evil....
Definitely one of the good ones.
All I'll add is that Odo's opening log narration is outstanding. Some brilliant comedy right there.
And, I was glad that they didn't chicken out and actually did have Kira be the one responsible. I doubt TNG would have ever done that with a main character. DS9 really starts to find its footing here.
Definitely one of the good ones.
All I'll add is that Odo's opening log narration is outstanding. Some brilliant comedy right there.
And, I was glad that they didn't chicken out and actually did have Kira be the one responsible. I doubt TNG would have ever done that with a main character. DS9 really starts to find its footing here.
Err... to be fair, there's still a rough patch to get through. I'd consider Necessary Evil a tropical island respite before hitting those mid-S2 choppy waters again.
(yeah, I just can't let that analogy go
)
If you'll allow me to form an analogy of my own; DS9 does find its footing with Necessary Evil, but it immediately trips and falls down a well. It's dark, damp and something just crawled across your leg, but you know that you're going to be rescued eventually. You hope...
And just to think that I almost hit eject and returned the DVD after "Rules of Acquisition" ended.
"'Necessary Evil?' Sounds like a totally standard Trek episode," I thought.
They really should have called this one something else:
"The List"
"Choosing Sides"
"The Investigator"
"A Ferengi Thing Happened on the Way to the Promenade"
Yeah, that last one just slipped out.
But the title they gave it actually undercuts the episode, because it's not about Odo dealing with a necessary evil--it's about him picking sides. Unless you want to say that Kira's slaying of the collaborator was evil.
"'Necessary Evil?' Sounds like a totally standard Trek episode," I thought.
They really should have called this one something else:
"The List"
"Choosing Sides"
"The Investigator"
"A Ferengi Thing Happened on the Way to the Promenade"
Yeah, that last one just slipped out.
But the title they gave it actually undercuts the episode, because it's not about Odo dealing with a necessary evil--it's about him picking sides. Unless you want to say that Kira's slaying of the collaborator was evil.
Err... to be fair, there's still a rough patch to get through. I'd consider Necessary Evil a tropical island respite before hitting those mid-S2 choppy waters again.
(yeah, I just can't let that analogy go
There are still rough patches to get through, to be sure.
But aside from the Circle Trilogy, this is the first truly excellent episode for DS9. The show isn't off and running smoothly yet, but they're starting to get there.
Err... to be fair, there's still a rough patch to get through. I'd consider Necessary Evil a tropical island respite before hitting those mid-S2 choppy waters again.
(yeah, I just can't let that analogy go
There are still rough patches to get through, to be sure.
But aside from the Circle Trilogy, this is the first truly excellent episode for DS9. The show isn't off and running smoothly yet, but they're starting to get there.
I hope you just forgot "Duet" for some reason, or else there may be trouble.
I hope you just forgot "Duet" for some reason, or else there may be trouble.
Yes, I did just forgot, somehow.My apologies. Hopefully there won't be a jihad now.
Something about this script feels like it's not a new idea. Yes, perhaps this wasn't the first time it was seen, but a...
"Second Sight"
According to Memory Alpha this wasn't a re-used TNG pitch, but it sure feels like it. Weren't there more than a few episodes where a visitor to the ship causes some kind of psychic projection, and where a solitary, elderly scientist is on the verge of the triumph of his career? I swear this could have been used for Riker with just a few re-writes. Doesn't Sisko even ask "What the hell's going on here?" at the end? Or did I imagine that?
The moment Seyetik said that the solar reboot would be the triumph of his career, I turned to my wife and said, "He's a dead man. Won't survive the episode."
On the other hand, when Fenna disappeared, my wife said, "She's a ghost." Close enough.
There's some poignant stuff about the 4th anniversary of Wolf 359 to start with, before we get into the mysterious ghost woman. It kind of works.
I didn't really buy lovestruck Sisko--it just felt kind of forced. But I liked Dax's little confrontation with him, where she accused him of not dishing to her because now she's a woman. I really think they could strengthen the Dax/Sisko friendship--it often doesn't feel like they've been friends for 20 years. Kind of like Janeway/Tuvok.
On the other hand, I loved Seyetik. He just seemed like a very charismatic, cool guy, who was full of himself but self-aware enough to realize it. The dinner party scene was funny--I loved Kira squirming, just itching to get away. Someone should really do a compilation of awkward Trek dinner party scenes. Come to think of it, I don't think there's ever been a dinner party on Trek where everyone had a good time. But I guess that's what televised drama will do to your group socializing.
So in the end Seyetik sacrifices himself so his wife (who is not quite Fenna) can be free. I don't buy it one bit. Seyetik was so self-centered he wouldn't have ever killed himself. Although I guess he might have thought that it's better to go out with a bang. He seemed pretty concerned with his legacy.
Who else thinks it would have been much better if his last words, instead of "Let there be light," had been, "Hey y'all, lookit this!!!" followed by something like this:
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcW_Ygs6hm0&feature=related[/yt]
On the whole it wasn't a bad episode of Trek, but definitely not one that seemed to advance the DS9 story. Just seemed like standard Trek to me.
Loved the TWoK "protomatter" reference, though.
"Second Sight"
According to Memory Alpha this wasn't a re-used TNG pitch, but it sure feels like it. Weren't there more than a few episodes where a visitor to the ship causes some kind of psychic projection, and where a solitary, elderly scientist is on the verge of the triumph of his career? I swear this could have been used for Riker with just a few re-writes. Doesn't Sisko even ask "What the hell's going on here?" at the end? Or did I imagine that?
The moment Seyetik said that the solar reboot would be the triumph of his career, I turned to my wife and said, "He's a dead man. Won't survive the episode."
On the other hand, when Fenna disappeared, my wife said, "She's a ghost." Close enough.
There's some poignant stuff about the 4th anniversary of Wolf 359 to start with, before we get into the mysterious ghost woman. It kind of works.
I didn't really buy lovestruck Sisko--it just felt kind of forced. But I liked Dax's little confrontation with him, where she accused him of not dishing to her because now she's a woman. I really think they could strengthen the Dax/Sisko friendship--it often doesn't feel like they've been friends for 20 years. Kind of like Janeway/Tuvok.
On the other hand, I loved Seyetik. He just seemed like a very charismatic, cool guy, who was full of himself but self-aware enough to realize it. The dinner party scene was funny--I loved Kira squirming, just itching to get away. Someone should really do a compilation of awkward Trek dinner party scenes. Come to think of it, I don't think there's ever been a dinner party on Trek where everyone had a good time. But I guess that's what televised drama will do to your group socializing.
So in the end Seyetik sacrifices himself so his wife (who is not quite Fenna) can be free. I don't buy it one bit. Seyetik was so self-centered he wouldn't have ever killed himself. Although I guess he might have thought that it's better to go out with a bang. He seemed pretty concerned with his legacy.
Who else thinks it would have been much better if his last words, instead of "Let there be light," had been, "Hey y'all, lookit this!!!" followed by something like this:
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wcW_Ygs6hm0&feature=related[/yt]
On the whole it wasn't a bad episode of Trek, but definitely not one that seemed to advance the DS9 story. Just seemed like standard Trek to me.
Loved the TWoK "protomatter" reference, though.
Second Sight is completely standard Romance-Trek. Nothing much about it.
The one bit I did like was Seyetik's suicide. That was rather moving. Otherwise, for me, this is an 'on to the next one' episode.
Actually, I've just thought about what is the next episode, and I've decided I'd really rather stay on Second Sight.
The one bit I did like was Seyetik's suicide. That was rather moving. Otherwise, for me, this is an 'on to the next one' episode.
Actually, I've just thought about what is the next episode, and I've decided I'd really rather stay on Second Sight.
Second Sight.... not a very good outing for DS9.
It may be standard fare for Trek, but when "standard fare" equals "bad DS9," that really does DS9 proud.
My problem is that it's just another romance-of-the-week - but this time with a ghost!
Even that angle isn't all that great, though some would probably argue that the whole ghost-romance is done better here than on TNG.
But, it just seems like they don't know what to do with the characters. They tossed Bashir into a meaningless romance-of-the-week in Melora, and now they do the same with Sisko. Sorry, but having the characters get into relationships that last exactly one episode and which all end the same way (with the relationship over in some way) doesn't make the character more interesting.
It may be standard fare for Trek, but when "standard fare" equals "bad DS9," that really does DS9 proud.
My problem is that it's just another romance-of-the-week - but this time with a ghost!
Even that angle isn't all that great, though some would probably argue that the whole ghost-romance is done better here than on TNG.But, it just seems like they don't know what to do with the characters. They tossed Bashir into a meaningless romance-of-the-week in Melora, and now they do the same with Sisko. Sorry, but having the characters get into relationships that last exactly one episode and which all end the same way (with the relationship over in some way) doesn't make the character more interesting.
My problem is that it's just another romance-of-the-week - but this time with a ghost!
Well, considering what TNG had to offer was "Sub Rosa..."
BTW, I've been trying to figure out your avatar. Is that supposed to be an alien Gandhi? Or is it from that My Teacher Is An Alien series from the 80s?
Actually, it's a take-off from something on the TV show Arrested Development. In one well-known episode, David Cross painted himself like a member of Blue Man Group.
My avatar is of him superimposed onto a shot of Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen, who also happens to be blue.
My avatar is of him superimposed onto a shot of Dr. Manhattan from Watchmen, who also happens to be blue.
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