Shatner's post-TOS Dog Days?

[Excelsius]

Wow, that's interesting. I did not know that.

Also, look at what's happened to Garrett Wang -- he's in a regular series, but he's not the lead. He's popular with Trek fans and was once even deemed the "Sexiest Man Alive" by People mag, from what I remember, but his IMDB.com stats aren't anything to write home about. Last time I looked, he had done only one or two movies -- B-grade -- before getting this current gig.

 

[Good Will Riker]

Excelsius said:
Wow, that's interesting. I did not know that.

Also, look at what's happened to Garrett Wang -- he's in a regular series, but he's not the lead. He's popular with Trek fans and was once even deemed the "Sexiest Man Alive" by People mag, from what I remember, but his IMDB.com stats aren't anything to write home about. Last time I looked, he had done only one or two movies -- B-grade -- before getting this current gig.

The character of Harry Kim is about as unpopular as the character of Wesley Crusher, there is no denying that.

Garrett Wang, unfortunately, is not cut-out to be a leading man. At least not in a multi-million dollar Hollywood production. He can audition for supporting roles, but he just doesn't have "it" that draws people to charismatic men like moths to a flame.

He was brought into fill a minor supporting role on "Star Trek: Voyager," and that's pretty much the only use Hollywood had for him. Just to be a token Asian prop on the UPN flagship show in a failed attempt to bring in or retain a percentage of the Asian American demographic (A lot of Asian Americans just do not watch much or if any of the post-TNG shows, sorry to say...). But, since the show is over, his presence is no longer wanted by the industry. There are hundreds, if not thousands of Asian American actors that have joined SAG since then. There's nothing special about him that distinguishes him from the pack. Virtually all of his acting income comes from VOY-residuals and convention appearances. With that alone, he never has to work another day for the rest of his life.

Right now, John Cho is a better shot at the brass ring. And, a lot of Asian Americans want him to succeed with films like Better Luck Tomorrow and Harold and Kumar. I wish him the best.

 

[TiberiusK]

Garrett Wang isn't a terrible actor. They just never wrote anything good for him. He ended up like Ent's Travis Mayweather. "Gee golly captain, I'm flying a spaceship!" But unlike Anthony Montgomery, Wang can act.

I feel sorry for the guy, especially when he did the cruises.

 

[Excelsius]

I seem to recall that he starred in his own episode, where he went back in time in order to rectify a harm.

Good comments, by the way. Thanks, GWR and others.

 

[Good Will Riker]

TiberiusK said:
I feel sorry for the guy, especially when he did the cruises.

Those cruises have helped Garrett amass a steady income. Unlike the majority of unemployed actors out there, he is in a very lofty place due to his association as one of the regulars of Star Trek.

He had his shot. 7 years on a TV show is definitely nothing to sneeze at considering the unpredictable nature of the television industry.

 

[Basil]

Good Will Riker said:

Excelsius said:
Wow, that's interesting. I did not know that.

Also, look at what's happened to Garrett Wang -- he's in a regular series, but he's not the lead. He's popular with Trek fans and was once even deemed the "Sexiest Man Alive" by People mag, from what I remember, but his IMDB.com stats aren't anything to write home about. Last time I looked, he had done only one or two movies -- B-grade -- before getting this current gig.

The character of Harry Kim is about as unpopular as the character of Wesley Crusher, there is no denying that.

Garrett Wang, unfortunately, is not cut-out to be a leading man. At least not in a multi-million dollar Hollywood production. He can audition for supporting roles, but he just doesn't have "it" that draws people to charismatic men like moths to a flame.

He was brought into fill a minor supporting role on "Star Trek: Voyager," and that's pretty much the only use Hollywood had for him. Just to be a token Asian prop on the UPN flagship show in a failed attempt to bring in or retain a percentage of the Asian American demographic (A lot of Asian Americans just do not watch much or if any of the post-TNG shows, sorry to say...). But, since the show is over, his presence is no longer wanted by the industry. There are hundreds, if not thousands of Asian American actors that have joined SAG since then. There's nothing special about him that distinguishes him from the pack. Virtually all of his acting income comes from VOY-residuals and convention appearances. With that alone, he never has to work another day for the rest of his life.

Right now, John Cho is a better shot at the brass ring. And, a lot of Asian Americans want him to succeed with films like Better Luck Tomorrow and Harold and Kumar. I wish him the best.

Cho has a shot, and good call on Hayakawa.

Asian Americans will probably need to bypass Hollywood if they're going to break away from the stereotypical and often demeaning supporting roles that are offered to them. The problem isn't producing a movie; the problem is distributing it, and with the Internet changing some of that, there may be room for Asian Americans to go their own way. There's a singer on Myspace -- her name escapes me now, but it's something that makes me think Magilla Gorilla, for some reason -- who basically did that when the recording industry mostly ignored her.

Of course, all this may be moot in a few years, when globalization makes more and more foreign films available. With Asians being in the majority worldwide, there may be less and less reason for them to turn to Hollywood in the first place. And Asian Americans may find that their opportunities lie in finding audiences in the other 95% of the world's population.

 

[Good Will Riker]

Basil said:
Of course, all this may be moot in a few years, when globalization makes more and more foreign films available. With Asians being in the majority worldwide, there may be less and less reason for them to turn to Hollywood in the first place. And Asian Americans may find that their opportunities lie in finding audiences in the other 95% of the world's population.

I am going to tell you this point blank as an Asian American man. An Asian American is more devalued in Asia than the white man. That's right. Allow me to use an un-PC term to illustrate this point:

"Why go out for rice, when we have plenty of rice at home?"

For example, when I was living in South Korea for 2.5 years from 2004-2006, the whole concept of the Asian American or even Latino American were invisible in Asian media (Desi Arnaz, Erik Estrada, and Salma Hayak are lumped together with whites in Asian media). When a typical Asian watches a Hollywood film or an American TV show, he/she is going to come away just remembering the white and black actors. When they think of Asian actors, there are so many in their own native country, that Asian Americans are a tiny microscopic amoeba lost in a vast ocean of their own native Asian and caucasian pool of actors.

So, while it may work when promoting Jackie Chan or Jet Li from Asia on American shores, that same strategy does not work when trying to promote a John Cho or a Garrett Wang in Asia. A film like "Better Luck Tomorrow" would not stand out or make a statement at all in Asia, because think about it? Asians in Asia are exposed to thousands of Asian films with confident Asian men and bold Asian women ALL THE TIME. A film like this and the Asian American actors associated in it (as well as other Asian American films), are literally, for all intents and purposes, invisible next to the multitude of caucasian Hollywood actors and native Asian film and TV actors of their own respective Asian countries.

This is the reason why Asian Americans have to make it as actors in Hollywood. In their home in America. If mainstream America does not accept Asian Americans as "Americans," then you can bet that the people in Asia definitely won't.

 

[Forbin]

Noname Given said:

Good Will Riker said:

Star Trek really saved this man's bacon.

Without it, he would probably be selling insurance or performing dinner theater somewhere.

^^^
You do realize he effectively did BOTH of those types of gigs while also doing bit part guest star roles of TV; and low budget TV movies of the week and small feature films; pretty much until ST:TMP came along and revitalized his career to a degree, right?

Humor. It is a difficult concept.

 

[Plum]

Excelsius said:

What about Bruce Lee?

He made his movies in Hong Kong. Unless you mean his role as man servant Kato in Green Hornet.

 

[voggmo]

"Except critics take the position of someone in the audience, not someone onstage when assessing the quality of a performance. And using his own logic, Simmons can't criticize the critics unless he's successfully been one himself."


I believe Gene was more referring to music as opposed to a concert performance. & most music critics, ( certainly of his heyday, 70's ), were full of s---. Tomy Iommi recalled a Rolling Stone reporter coming to review them & there was a power outage in the city, so they weren't able to play. Next day Tony reads this scathing review, band can't play, lousy musicians, shitty show etc etc.

Gene is right about many of these critics, they have no musical or performing skill, who voted them authorities?? Critics by & large vote themselves in as authorities & only the public can grant that title as they did with Ebert. He showed his stuff over time. He certainly qualifies Gene's theory. He did something.


Restarants another sort of matter to what Gene was referring to.

 

[Good Will Riker]

^^^

"What'd you talking about Willis?"

 

[voggmo]

Page 1. & the topic of whether Takei was qualified or not to be a critic of Shat.

 

[Good Will Riker]

voggmo said:
Gene is right about many of these critics, they have no musical or performing skill, who voted them authorities?? Critics by & large vote themselves in as authorities & only the public can grant that title as they did with Ebert. He showed his stuff over time. He certainly qualifies Gene's theory. He did something.

For the most part, I agree with this strongly, based on the opinions of professional critics and artists who have dealt with these so-called "armchair quarterbacks" for years.

 

[Basil]

Good Will Riker said:

Basil said:
Of course, all this may be moot in a few years, when globalization makes more and more foreign films available. With Asians being in the majority worldwide, there may be less and less reason for them to turn to Hollywood in the first place. And Asian Americans may find that their opportunities lie in finding audiences in the other 95% of the world's population.

I am going to tell you this point blank as an Asian American man. An Asian American is more devalued in Asia than the white man. That's right. Allow me to use an un-PC term to illustrate this point:

"Why go out for rice, when we have plenty of rice at home?"

For example, when I was living in South Korea for 2.5 years from 2004-2006, the whole concept of the Asian American or even Latino American were invisible in Asian media (Desi Arnaz, Erik Estrada, and Salma Hayak are lumped together with whites in Asian media). When a typical Asian watches a Hollywood film or an American TV show, he/she is going to come away just remembering the white and black actors. When they think of Asian actors, there are so many in their own native country, that Asian Americans are a tiny microscopic amoeba lost in a vast ocean of their own native Asian and caucasian pool of actors.

So, while it may work when promoting Jackie Chan or Jet Li from Asia on American shores, that same strategy does not work when trying to promote a John Cho or a Garrett Wang in Asia. A film like "Better Luck Tomorrow" would not stand out or make a statement at all in Asia, because think about it? Asians in Asia are exposed to thousands of Asian films with confident Asian men and bold Asian women ALL THE TIME. A film like this and the Asian American actors associated in it (as well as other Asian American films), are literally, for all intents and purposes, invisible next to the multitude of caucasian Hollywood actors and native Asian film and TV actors of their own respective Asian countries.

This is the reason why Asian Americans have to make it as actors in Hollywood. In their home in America. If mainstream America does not accept Asian Americans as "Americans," then you can bet that the people in Asia definitely won't.

Wow, how strange. I've heard of American actors of European descent being very popular in Europe . . . one would think that actors of Asian descent, in the more expensive and flashy productions made here, might have the same opportunity. Thanks for the info, troubling as it sounds. I'm not sure that Asian American actors can break that glass ceiling -- Hollywood seems staunchily opposed to elevating Asian American men, in particular, to the role of leading man. They're okay to be presented as sidekicks or villains, but not as the lead . . . unless one counts some actors of mixed Asian/Pacific Islander descent.

 

[Basil]

Good Will Riker said:

voggmo said:
Gene is right about many of these critics, they have no musical or performing skill, who voted them authorities?? Critics by & large vote themselves in as authorities & only the public can grant that title as they did with Ebert. He showed his stuff over time. He certainly qualifies Gene's theory. He did something.

For the most part, I agree with this strongly, based on the opinions of professional critics and artists who have dealt with these so-called "armchair quarterbacks" for years.

Boy, I hope not . . . if Brittney Spears or Pauly Shore suddenly became the critical authority, I'd really pack up my bags and leave this country.

The notion that the professional critic lacks the authority to critique is rubbish. They have training, usually advanced education, compete for a very limited number of jobs, and then, like all professionals, must maintain standards to keep them. The fact that the critic has aesthetic distance from the actual performance is exactly the reason why they're needed. Otherwise, they'd end up part of the "old boy's network" where people reinforce each others' success for all the wrong reasons. We don't have to agree with critics -- that's why there are so many of them -- but we shouldn't discount the role they serve in a society filled with crass commercialism.

 

[Basil]

D'oh! I meant to reply to the original poster's comment, not yours, GWR. Sorry for the confusion.

 

[voggmo]

"They have training, usually advanced education,"

No they don't, & that's the point. Most rock music critics of the 70's had no musical training whatsoever. It's different today, but ask "any" British rock musician what they think of British rock critics, & they will tell you they are the elite of snobbery & entirely irelevant to rock & roll anyway. The kids buy the records, not the critics, what "they" think don't add up to scratch.

 

[Basil]

voggmo said:
"They have training, usually advanced education,"

No they don't, & that's the point. Most rock music critics of the 70's had no musical training whatsoever. It's different today, but ask "any" British rock musician what they think of British rock critics, & they will tell you they are the elite of snobbery & entirely irelevant to rock & roll anyway. The kids buy the records, not the critics, what "they" think don't add up to scratch.

I was referring mainly to film and in the U.S., but if standards are lower in England, okay.

 

[Therin of Andor]

TiberiusK said:
But unlike Anthony Montgomery, Wang can act.

I just don't understand this comment. Obviously, Anthony Montgomery did something right in all those auditions he went through to score the ENT role. I guess if he'd had opportunities to give stand out performances in the early episodes, the writers would have been more excited about writing bigger and bigger bits for him.

We saw this happen for Colm Meaney, who proved it could happen in TNG (he was little more than a two-line walk-on in "Encounter at Farpoint") but it's just as much luck as skill that the right script or the right performance, in the right combination at the right time, catches that attention.

 

[Good Will Riker]

Basil said:

Good Will Riker said:

Basil said:
Of course, all this may be moot in a few years, when globalization makes more and more foreign films available. With Asians being in the majority worldwide, there may be less and less reason for them to turn to Hollywood in the first place. And Asian Americans may find that their opportunities lie in finding audiences in the other 95% of the world's population.

I am going to tell you this point blank as an Asian American man. An Asian American is more devalued in Asia than the white man. That's right. Allow me to use an un-PC term to illustrate this point:

"Why go out for rice, when we have plenty of rice at home?"

For example, when I was living in South Korea for 2.5 years from 2004-2006, the whole concept of the Asian American or even Latino American were invisible in Asian media (Desi Arnaz, Erik Estrada, and Salma Hayak are lumped together with whites in Asian media). When a typical Asian watches a Hollywood film or an American TV show, he/she is going to come away just remembering the white and black actors. When they think of Asian actors, there are so many in their own native country, that Asian Americans are a tiny microscopic amoeba lost in a vast ocean of their own native Asian and caucasian pool of actors.

So, while it may work when promoting Jackie Chan or Jet Li from Asia on American shores, that same strategy does not work when trying to promote a John Cho or a Garrett Wang in Asia. A film like "Better Luck Tomorrow" would not stand out or make a statement at all in Asia, because think about it? Asians in Asia are exposed to thousands of Asian films with confident Asian men and bold Asian women ALL THE TIME. A film like this and the Asian American actors associated in it (as well as other Asian American films), are literally, for all intents and purposes, invisible next to the multitude of caucasian Hollywood actors and native Asian film and TV actors of their own respective Asian countries.

This is the reason why Asian Americans have to make it as actors in Hollywood. In their home in America. If mainstream America does not accept Asian Americans as "Americans," then you can bet that the people in Asia definitely won't.

Wow, how strange. I've heard of American actors of European descent being very popular in Europe . . . one would think that actors of Asian descent, in the more expensive and flashy productions made here, might have the same opportunity. Thanks for the info, troubling as it sounds. I'm not sure that Asian American actors can break that glass ceiling -- Hollywood seems staunchily opposed to elevating Asian American men, in particular, to the role of leading man. They're okay to be presented as sidekicks or villains, but not as the lead . . . unless one counts some actors of mixed Asian/Pacific Islander descent.

When majority of Europeans view Hollywood, they see a lot of whites like them on screen. When Asians view Hollywood, they see a lot of whites on screen. Both Europeans and Asians (in Asia) are seeing the same Hollywood productions filled with "white actors" delivered to them constantly, right?

After white actors, black actors are the most prominently visible onscreen. Let's say you include a DVD of "Better Luck Tomorrow," an Asian American film (with no-name actors) in a videostore in Korea, Japan, Hong Kong, or China that rents out 5,000 DVDs and VHS tapes filled with popularly commercially hyped Asian actors from Asia as well as popular white and black actors from Hollywood. A film like this gets easily lost in the shuffle, and no Asian (from Asia) moviegoers are even going to care all that much, if at all even care in the first place.

Not to sound racist, but most Asians revere watching the "Brad Pitts" and the "Tom Cruises" on screen. You ask a typical Asian teenaged girl who is cuter, "Brad Pitt" or the singer "Bi?" They'd pick the white guy as the more handsomer, with a prettier face, and more beautiful eyes. The blond hair and blue eyes of "Hollywood" wins out even in Asia.