Shame and frustration

[Deranged Nasat]

I suppose this is a mix between an open request for advice and a forum for discussion, but I could really use your collective help, my friends. As some of you may know, I have a reasonably serious mental illness, as well as a physical (psychosomatic?) condition that often correlates. I find myself incredibly frustrated by both, because they've kept me from making the most of my life and my opportunities, and the fact that neither is curable leaves me feeling like I have no future prospects. This is always playing on my mind to some degree, but lately it's becoming near-overwhelming.

Partly due to the direct effects of the mental illness, and partly due to secondary frustrations from the physical complaints (and the two no doubt feed into each other - the more frustrated I am the more my mood and my thinking become distorted, the more stressed I get and the more my body plays up) I can sometimes have almost childish shifts in mood. When that happens, I both need lots of support from friends and family and become less than fun to be around. I want my relationships with people to be strong and healthy, and the more I need to lean on other people for support or express my frustrations the more infantile and worthless I feel.

Family members, etc, assure me that there's no shame in it - I can't help being ill - but while I acknowledge the point it doesn't help me come to terms with the situation at all. I feel dishonoured and embarrassed, and it's damaging to my sense of worth. Even if others won't reject me I feel that I have soiled these relationships by being less than myself. I feel I have to hold myself apart from people in case I say something wrong or respond with childish emotionalism, and I feel like there's no point to living if I'm unable to make my body and mind work properly. Even stating this here is embarrassing, and makes me feel ashamed, and no amount of intellectual resistance to the idea can prevent that (which is itself part of the problem). However, I feel the need to ask, particularly as there are others here who have long term illnesses or know people with same, if there's any coping mechanisms.

 

[Thor Damar]

Mate, I'm really sorry that you feel that way and from what I know and have read on here from you, there is no need for you to feel like this.

I can sympathize and very empathize with you on this thought being as I am a Reverse Megalomaniac (lit: someone who considers himself to be, and is obsessed by his own obvious worthlessness.) So I can understand where you're coming from at least in terms of the thought processes.

I'm not sure if I have any good advice that I can give you as I'm pretty sure that I have neither the talent or experience (RM) so all I can do is offer my support and reassurance that what you've been doing, talking things over with friends and family is always a good step.

 

[Kestra]

PM me or message me over MSN. Let's talk.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Thanks, TD. As ever, it's appreciated. I tell myself not to feel ashamed, but I do, and it plays on my mind no end. I'll probably be regretting this thread later, for silly reasons, but knowing that I'm being silly doesn't help - I always know when I'm being irrational or less than sensible, I just can't stop myself.

Edit: Kestra: I may just do that, in a short while if not right now. Thank you.

 

[Thor Damar]

Trust me I know of what you speak at least on a certain level and I think that you are dealing with it quite well in wanting to communicate with others and seek out other ideas to aid you.

It is a more superior emotional and intellectual approach than mine which is to take the 'obi wan hermit' route and slowly but surely shut myself off from anything that I cannot handle (which is most things really)

You've nothing to be ashamed off my friend

 

[An Officer]

I am not too sure what your affliction are, so I cannot be specific in my comments... but the first thing I will mention is diet, make sure the food and drink that you consume are as pure and fresh as you can find, and high in nutritional value. It does wonders for your physical health and sense of mental well being. Many afflictions have their roots in a nutritional deficiency and it is not always spotted or treated because family doctors today are not trained in nutrition!

The second thing is physical activity, make sure you move a lot, even perspire a little, this releases the endorphins and will again benefit physical and mental health in humongous ways.

Stress, this is a big thing, it can literally destroy your immune system and mental well-being, find what it is that bothers you, and utilize coping mechanisms - cognitive behavioral therapy has been proven to work. If you are unable to see a professional, there are plenty of self help books if you hit Amazon or the book stores.

Also, too much time alone, or time to think in loops is the worst thing you can do to yourself... our natures are social active creatures and too much of the solitary life combined with non activity if extremely destructive in so many ways. Keep yourself busy with things that make you feel as though you have achieved something, even if it is just helping someone else with their problem - it helps you forget your own, and gives you a feeling of satisfaction in a job well done and a genuine feeling of self worth. Your friends and family must have their own responsibilities and issues you can assist with, even if its just running this or that errand they do not have time for...

Cultivating a regular state of gratitude is an enormous benefit to a feeling that you are worth something... just consider that you have friends and family who are there, want to help... there are many in your same position and worse who do not have this, I have been there myself, it is not a nice place. In fact, to many people, someone who has a problem and needs help is someone to be avoided studiously! Whatever your state of health, it is a fact there is always someone who has it worse, this is something to be grateful for, they are a fragile soul who suffers just as you do, it is only by fortune that you do not suffer more than you do.... it is something that you can be pleased about in a very real way - it helps you step outside yourself and gain a small amount of perspective. It is a harsh thing to consider perhaps, but it does not make it any less true.

Every day that you live is a gift, because it is a day when you can do some good! You can really spend a long time thinking on this statement, it is a rather large philosophy by itself. Even if you dislike yourself... you have hands, a mouth, feet, a brain, options, ideas, even if you have only one of these, it is still something great that you have.... and there is always someone who can benefit from these vastly powerful gifts that you possess if you recognise your gifts as such!

And when you feel too dark to pull yourself up from a low point by yourself... there is no shame in talking to someone who cares about you to help you up a little, give you that little boost, and if not that, there are so many motivational videos of every kind for free online on Youtube and elsewhere.

And lastly, because you may not be open to this or reluctant, I don't know... anyway, I have put it last, but in my experience it comes first... seek help from a higher power, whether you believe there is a power higher than yourself or not, this does not make any difference to the result, when you seek and ask for help from a higher power, you have nothing at all to loose and everything to gain. There are more things in heaven and earth than are dreamt of in our philosophies, and when you have lost the will, the hope, the strength, it is still possible for you to recharge from a source other than yourself. Just ask for help mentally whenever you need it, whenever you remember, and see what happens. It is a proven technique, vast numbers of people with serious problems, such as narcotics addictions have recovered by seeking help from a higher power, even if they do not believe or know what that is... it just works. Fact.

Every emotion that you have can become an addiction, including feelings of shame and frustrations, every thought is building and reinforcing neural pathways in your brain... and when you alter your thoughts consistently, you literally reconfigure your brain. Any thought that you have that is a conscious change from your usual is completely worthy of your time... you can literally rebuild your mind. Check this documentary film out, a lot of serious people on there, and a great motivation: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ioONhpIJ-NY What the Bleep do we know? Makes a lot of sense. And it talks about feelings of self hate, you might find it useful. It is a great and wonderful world we live in! If you ever watch one thing, watch this documentary.

I am so sorry you suffer, I wish you all the best, and my thoughts are with you... please do not be ashamed you feel bad or need help, advice, some feedback... I do not think there is a human being alive who does not have problems of one kind or another, it is nothing to be ashamed of, it is the human condition that we all share. Please do update and let us know how you are getting on! Keep fighting, and step by step you will improve, you'll see, just try stuff, one after the other and see what works. Do your research and read up on things, and just cling to hope - it is a powerful force. See yourself in the future, better, fitter, happy, and looking back on these times, wondering what you were fretting so much about! :-)

 

[Gul Re'jal]

I know the feeling "I'd like to stop behaving like it but I don't know how" all too well. I think you are lucky that you have family support and friends, too. And you know you can count me as one of the latter.

Maybe talking and throwing everything out could at least help a little. Don't worry what it looks like, don't worry it's childish or what not - it could be as well your own interpretation and not how people see you.

My PM box has plenty of space for PMs

 

[Ood Sigma]

Hang in there, buddy. As far as coping goes, as cliche as it is, sometimes you really do have to take it one day at a time. Tell yourself "I can make it through today" and then you do it. If you need to break it down even to an hour at a time, do that.

If you find yourself needing to reflect on your situation, or rage about it, give yourself a short period of time (a half hour? ten minutes?) every once in a while, and do it at a time when it will least affect others. Give yourself that outlet if you feel like you're going to burst.

If you want to be more specific about what you're feeling now, feel free to PM.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

Thank you, everyone, I do appreciate the support. Part of the problem is that, while intellectually and morally I understand ways of dealing with these problems, due to the way my mind is currently working (or not working), I can't apply my understanding to the chaos of my feelings.

It's similar in some ways to when I dream; sometimes part of me is immersed in the dream and responding to whatever's going on in the dreamworld, while another part of me is sitting back and observing. I get frustrated partly because I'm always entirely aware of when I'm irrational or flighty or silly, but I can't seem to wrest back control.

I said I'd end up regretting this thread, and that's because I'm tired of being a "problem". It's just so incredibly frustrating, this sense that everything I build for myself ends up being "ruined" by my lapses into this sort of mood. When I say ruined, I don't mean that I'm worried others will judge me, instead I feel less than I was because I'm unable to stand among other people without falling onto them for support. I enjoy my time interacting with others, but everytime I feel comfortable and settled, feel like I'm among friends who I share jokes with and generally having a good time, I end up getting down and doing things like this. I just want to be here (and everywhere else I enjoy being) as a productive presence without collapsing periodically all over people. And that's why I feel so ashamed, because all my relationships end up marred by my history of failing at self-sufficiency.

 

[Deranged Nasat]

An Officer, I really appreciated the time you spent on that lengthy response. Much of that is useful and reassuring, and I appreciate the link you provided.

Part of my problem, unfortunately, is that my intellectual and moral perspectives become swamped by the chaos of my thoughts and feelings, so that understanding or accepting these things doesn't seem to help me, because I can't seem to live up to them. This is a good example:

Keep yourself busy with things that make you feel as though you have achieved something, even if it is just helping someone else with their problem - it helps you forget your own, and gives you a feeling of satisfaction in a job well done and a genuine feeling of self worth.

I have indeed tried in the past to focus on the good I've done - I can think of quite a few places in which I've been useful, helpful or an asset to others, and I try to tell myself to accept that and use it as a foundation for my current identity. Telling myself that I'm a good person and plenty of people appreciate me. But try as I might I can't prevent this sensible analysis from being overrun by feelings of shame and worthlessness. And then I think - what's the point of being a part of other people's lives when I can't maintain my position and will end up veering in to an emotional collapse that showers them with my self-pity and angst. Again, I "ruin" things, not in their eyes perhaps but in mine. And even as I feel this I understand the illogic of it, but try as I might I can't realign my general mood towards that sense.

 

[Robert Maxwell]

If any of you want to talk to someone sympathetic, PM or IM me. I am much nicer off the board (I promise!)

 

[ancientone51]

1. Know you have friends here as well as IRL who care and support you.
2. Cliched as it may sound, post affirmative thoughts and or prayers where you can
find them easily. I have some on my desk pad and they help with the stress.
3. Learn to breathe deeply and do it when stressed, counting to ten helps as well.
4. An Officer has much wise advice, study it.
5. Know you are not alone in this. I'm one of the oldest on the board and fell this way
as well. Perhaps not as often, or as harshly, but know you CAN survive with one
little bit at a time. Try to make it until...set your own time limit. Work in longer and
longer incriments, or back to small as required.

Know you are special to many and there is no shame in needing to lean now and then. The shame is in not getting or using the help offered. Take care and check my first sig. Hugs and love.

 

[RandyS]

Deranged, I can certainly sympathize. I have had cerebral palsy all my life and developed crippling migraines when I was a young man, and both have made my day to day exsistence a living hell.

I'm not really sure what advice to give you except to say that you should NOT feel ashamed. I don't. I didn't ask to be disabled, and I'm sure you didn't either. Frustration is understandable, but shame is not. This isn't your fault.

Hang in there friend.

 

[An Officer]

Part of my problem, unfortunately, is that my intellectual and moral perspectives become swamped by the chaos of my thoughts and feelings, so that understanding or accepting these things doesn't seem to help me, because I can't seem to live up to them.

You must forgive yourself, because if you could have done better, you would have, sometimes we just do not know how... or certain things have happened to us that have stamped out the will to do it. If your state sincerely bothers you, you are remorseful, and you want to change, then you are certainly worthy of forgiveness!

Forgive yourself that it will take more than one day to achieve this change... things like changing your thought patterns and the learned habits of your body take time... we live in a physical world, and sometimes there are speed limits, and we just have to be patient with them and keep trying, even when the end of the road is not visible yet, we know we will get there sooner or later... congratulate yourself that you are even trying at all - this is a noble task which many never even consider!

Forgive yourself that you are a human being with weakness - we all have them, just in different areas, some more hidden than others, just because the weakness of others is not visible to you, does not mean it does not exist. Do not judge your insides by other people's outsides.

The only thing that makes one human being better than another is how hard we fight our own weakness. Knowledge of what needs to be done, combined the will to act, this is the root of achievements.

In order to act, there must be motivation... and yes, I agree with you, logical understanding is not enough... there are many studies done on the heart now which shows it has a function in learning and emotions... quite different from the brain. It would seem all those old phrases like "know by heart"... "my heart's not in it"... "the heart has reasons which reason cannot know"... may in a sense be quite real! Everyday, we are discovering we have functions that we are not aware of, have not yet understood in full or even at all... logic is excellent, but there may be more at play.

I would think about healing your "heart" or rather "humanity", so that you can not only conceptualize information with your brain, but also "feel" what it is you are trying to grasp with your "heart" at the same time... otherwise it is all just empty words, yes, they make sense, completely, but totally lacking in power to move... I know exactly what you mean and have and do feel it! It is quite baffling, how you can understand something totally, and be completely unaffected by it in any real sense!

I think modern living kills the tenderness in our hearts, I mean, it is almost taboo to even speak like this anymore, as though it is stupid or foolish somehow, but it is our nature, we are feeling creatures... when was the last time you (general you) cried? Sometimes I went months without crying... this is really a very artificial state to be living in. There are many upsetting things happening in the world, to sit eating your TV dinner while you watch bodies being dug up from earthquakes or something like that, whilst being totally unmoved, chewing and swallowing normally, cannot be good. It means we are dead inside in some way, those people are real people, just like us, and they suffer, it must or should hurt. We ought to be able to laugh until we cry, and cry involuntarily, because we are soft, sweet, accessible, caring, giving... the full spectrum of humanity. A present person, here in the moment, taking in and reflecting on the surroundings on a deep level. That has its own wonder.

We do everything on automatic now, eating, sleeping, working, talking, listening... this is the most base level of existence... we can aspire to greater heights, squeeze more out of every moment, understand more, be more, achieve more, LIVE more! Let us see what our minds bodies and spirits are capable of... it's like being provided with a Ferrari, and using it as a coffee table. Hehe! Let's take it for a whiz, it'll be exciting! Whether scary, sad, astonishing, pleasing, beautiful... it will be exciting! The journey of discovery that is life, or ought to be life... the way children are, fascinated by everything, pleased by simple things, before the world retrains them out of their natural state... but, only if we allow ourselves to be dimmed by our surroundings, we can find and surround ourselves with surroundings that actually do the opposite and amplify us... it is a choice we make daily, whether consciously or otherwise. There is so much to learn, do, see, be, discover - there is a bliss to be had in the new, changing your behavior, your actions, interacting with different people and situations... it is it's own self-feeding reward, but you must first take those first steps that allow you to know this for yourself, so you can start that snowball, which will have it's own momentum, it gets easier everyday! Positivity is always easier than negativity, it is like a metaphysical law of the universe.

I suppose the culmination of what I am saying to you is to teach yourself to see only the good, in yourself, and outside of yourself... then what else will you be but always pleased? If you fill your mind with pleasure, there is no room for displeasure. Fill yourself that way, like a vessel, and then all that pours out will be what you filled yourself with... pleasure. The first tiniest smallest step even, can make a greater change than you can currently imagine... look at it like this - imagine the starship Enterprise, going to warp, even a small fraction of a fraction alteration in course would mean you may end up in an entirely different sector, given enough time and speed!

 

[sojourner]

there are many studies done on the heart now which shows it has a function in learning and emotions... quite different from the brain.

Sorry, I gotta ask if you have any links that show how a pump made of muscle affects learning and emotions (beside the obvious effect of death if it stops)?

 

[An Officer]

EDIT: Here is a Youtube link of the documentary: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wheOnKqwXsI

I saw this in a recent BBC documentary, and it actually discussed this very thing that you ask(!), and concluded that yes, the heart is far more than a simple crude pump as previously thought... with the latest research once again realigning with "the seat of humanity" idea, as it was viewed in the past by the ancient great philosophers. Here is the BBC link:http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01kpvj1

There are further links to be followed there.

One of the most interesting things I've seen in a while. The programme speaks with the foremost heart specialists and researchers in the world, discussing how the latest research is echoing more ancient views in remarkable ways... I am far too lazy to re-watch it, note quotes, and provide a full bibliography complete with peer reviewed journals, but if you're really interested... the link should start you off quite well I think.

To give you a sense of this idea, a quick Google of : heart, learning, emotions...and you get all sorts of cool things like the link below, it is an idea that seems to be entering public consciousness in a rather widespread way, and taken quite seriously by educators:
http://www.ibe.unesco.org/fileadmin...ons/EducationalPracticesSeriesPdf/prac11e.pdf

 

[thestrangequark]

Nasat, I understand what you're going through. I also have a chronic physical illness and a mental illness, and the two strongly effect eachother. It is very difficult to overcome the feelings of shame and frustration, but in my experience, it does get easier. It takes time and effort, but you can learn how to cope with your illnesses, to accept them, and even to see how you can use them to make you a stronger person. It may be difficult to see that ever happening, but in my experience, it happened sooner than I thought. I do still get angry sometimes, and frustrated, or feel like things are unfair, but these feelings are more fleeting now, and they don't seem to weigh on me so much as they once did. Time alone won't do it, you'l have to make an effort, but it can be done. What worked for me might not work for you, and you should always work with your doctor, but here are some things I found really helpful that I hope you might be able to take inspiration from:
Firstly, keep reminding yourself that those feelings of guilt and shame, while valid, are confused. You said you recognized rationally that you should not feel that way, cling to that sense of reason. Next, find a routine, hobby, or purpose: something that will keep you going through the tough days. For me it was as basic as going to the coffee shop to do a crossword puzzle and walking home. It got me out of the house, and got me exercise (it's about a 6 mile walk). Some days it was all I could do, but it was something. Find something that works for you. If you want to ask me any questions about my own experience or just talk, I'd be happy to in here or over pm.

there are many studies done on the heart now which shows it has a function in learning and emotions... quite different from the brain.

Sorry, I gotta ask if you have any links that show how a pump made of muscle affects learning and emotions (beside the obvious effect of death if it stops)?

It doesn't, at least not at all in the way or to the extent that is being suggested. The documentarian was so devoted to his hypothesis that he didn't seem to realize that none of the science actually supported it. It was really kind of depressing, because you could see he really, desperately wanted justification for his ideas. It was also a little offensive in parts. Social Emotional Learning, while a significant movement in education (and one that looks promising) doesn't actually have anything to do with the heart muscle.

 

[sojourner]

http://www.ibe.unesco.org/fileadmin...ons/EducationalPracticesSeriesPdf/prac11e.pdf

Where in this pdf does it even bring up the human heart (again, talking about the one that pumps blood) and link it to emotions?

 

[An Officer]

TSQ, although you may very well be right... absolutes bother me a little... our knowledge is ever growing, and what may be considered preposterous today, may be in the school textbooks tomorrow... here's an example I love: In the late 1700's, the French Academy of Sciences looked into the matter, and proceeded to declare that stones could not fall from the sky, because there were no stones in the sky. And that was the end of the matter for some time. Nevermind that people had actually seen them fall with their own eyes. Now, meteorites are undisputed. The rational inquiry, although extremely logical and useful, I think can become self defeating when it falls into arrogance. We do not know everything, currently.

 

[iguana_tonante]

there are many studies done on the heart now which shows it has a function in learning and emotions... quite different from the brain.

Sorry, I gotta ask if you have any links that show how a pump made of muscle affects learning and emotions (beside the obvious effect of death if it stops)?

It doesn't, at least not at all in the way or to the extent that is being suggested. The documentarian was so devoted to his hypothesis that he didn't seem to realize that none of the science actually supported it. It was really kind of depressing, because you could see he really, desperately wanted justification for his ideas.

Sounds like bullshit, no different than the usual "ancient aliens built the pyramids" kind: ignore the facts, grasp at straws, obfuscate the issue, prey people's credulity and trust. Not what I would call a commendable endeavour.

Social Emotional Learning, while a significant movement in education (and one that looks promising) doesn't actually have anything to do with the heart muscle.

Yeah, the paper linked is obviously just using "heart" as a metaphor for "emotions".

For how much I trust the sentiment is real and the offer is honest, I don't think Nasat (or anybody else) would get any help from something that isn't based of a truthful assessment of reality.

We do not know everything, currently.

Of course. And epistemologically speaking, probably we never will. Yet it doesn't mean we should be eager to believe things just because they "feel right" instead of looking for proofs and evidences. Especially since new advances are made by looking at the facts, not conjured from dreams and wishes.