Shake Up With Heroes - Loeb OUT!
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Hopefully, this will give the show a creative jolt.
I think one criticism of the show that is very valid is the fact that these characters aren't really being...heroes. They spend most of their time trying to stop conspiracies and stuff from the future yet they don't concentrate on the present. How about a plot that deals with them dealing with problems in the present? As another article noted, would it kill them to stop a mugger once in a while?
The premise of ordinary people developing extraordinary powers is long gone.
I think one criticism of the show that is very valid is the fact that these characters aren't really being...heroes. They spend most of their time trying to stop conspiracies and stuff from the future yet they don't concentrate on the present. How about a plot that deals with them dealing with problems in the present? As another article noted, would it kill them to stop a mugger once in a while?
The premise of ordinary people developing extraordinary powers is long gone.
No, did Loeb write a bad episode or something?
That's really not their mindset, or the focus of the show, which is more grandiose. It might be interesting to see Matt, the one character who would be inclined to think it's his job to stop a mugger, start a unilateral crime-fighting spree.
But he'd be violating people's privacy and human rights right and left. His powers cannot be used any way but coercively. He wouldn't technically be committing crimes but when he was found out, the authorities would flip out at having some guy who can control people's minds in their midst. He'd be locked up forever in Gitmo for sure (assuming anyone could get him there; they'd have to surprise him and knock him out, and then I guess use robots to send in his food.)
The problem with these powers is that they are too much for society. Even a well-meaning person like Matt would be too frightening. People might be able to adjust to someone like Nathan with an entirely innocuous power, but most of the powers will create fear, panic, envy, the need to pass laws against mind-reading, etc.
What the show really needs is to focus more on the core of the characters - what do they want? None of them just wants to stop a mugger.
Peter is driven by a slightly psycho need to be a hero. To him, this is a more grandiose variation on being a nurse: heal the world. He's not doing it to be "good," really. He's doing it because he has some deep psychological need to do it, something he can't control and will never go away.
Claire has emerged as someone driven to gain mastery over a terrifying world, and her own increasingly terrifying self. Ultimately her goal is to grow up.
Nathan seems to be the family mediator, the guy who tries to keep the family from spinning wildly apart. He also seems to be a natural future leader for either his family or the larger metahuman family and when inevitably the world learns what's been going on, he'll become the mediator for that much bigger conflict.
Noah wants to protect his own family.
Sylar, who now should be called Gabriel, is getting used to the novelty of having had his wishes fulfilled by becoming part of the powerful, consequential family he always wanted. What he will want going forward is still an open question, but I think his egomania and hunger for power will cause him to challenge the alpha-males in the family - Arthur and Nathan - for control. And he'll have to learn to control "the hunger" because going forward it will simply be an obstacle to his new goals.
Matt still has a career based goal: protect and serve. He has powers that could make him the most amazing cop ever, but they could also freak people out. A whole TV series could be built around a character like him. He's Dexter Morgan, with a secret he must forever hide, except that instead of slicing up evildoers, he just violates their privacy and their psyche. Of the two, people would find innocuous Matt the more terrifying.
Mohinder also still has a career based goal: he's always been motivated by the desire to find out amazing new things. He's a true scientist. He also wants to help people, and he just needs to be brought back into focus. It's silly to think he can think he can help anyone by creating new powers. He's had plenty of time to see the destruction they wreak. He needs to get back to doing the only sensible thing: a cure or at least a therapy to suppress powers.
Arthur and Angela have goals based on whatever machinations they are machinating. They're find as they are, for as long as they survive. They just exist as elements that create opportunities or obstacles for the more important characters.
Hiro has no real goal that I can discern, except a silly, childish need to be a hero. But unlike Peter, this need doesn't come from an interestingly complex and twisted psyche. It seems to come solely from boredom. Stupid motive.
Ando's goal is to follow Hiro around.
Tracey's goal is to get a grip on her new power. She's in the same place as the others were in S1. But I'm not sure that anything more interesting than that is ever going to emerge. There doesn't seem to be any basis for it. Maybe finding her other sister, and then she dies? Eh.
Other characters like Sandra, Meredith, Daphne, Elle and Lyle are too tangental to require some justification for their existence other than interacting with major characters so they can stay around. Lyle and Elle might have more to them that can be developed.
Maya should stay away. She may not have been killed off but the writers should treat her as though she has been.
What the writers need to do is take a good hard look at the major characters, delete the ones who have no good, solid, character-want-based drive (because you can't write anything good about characters like that anyway - so goodbye Hiro and Ando, and maybe Tracey) and then fashion a plotline that pushes all their character arcs forward, so that all are, in some way or another, trying to achieve those goals. At times their goals with bring them together and at other times they will bring them into conflict.
The writers need to STOP what they are doing now, namely coming up with character pairings and scenarios that they think the fans will find kewl. Sure, I like Petrellicest and it's fun to see them indulging that, but I'd also like writing with more integrity than that.
Like Matt and Daphne. We're introduced to Daphne as Hiro's nemesis in the first two episodes of the season and then by the third episode we learn that she's supposed to get married to Matt? WTF? This pairing makes no sense. Not to mention the fact that now the producers have to put them together because they're together in the future. So their interaction together feels very forced instead of natural. They are better off letting the character interact naturally and seeing if it will build to anything.
I've been surprised how well Matt and Daphne have worked out. I was prepared to hate Daphne because my default position is to hate all new characters 
but yeah, she's ok and I can buy those two together. If the writers want to keep ONE romantic pairing that survives amidst all the relationship carnage, they could keep that one. But everyone else must suffer because I hate kissy-face!
Interesting rumor sprouting up - Loeb and Alexander were fired to make room for Byran Fuller now that Pushing Daisies is almost certain to be cancelled!
That would be great news for Heroes and bad but inevitable news for Pushing Daisies.
but yeah, she's ok and I can buy those two together. If the writers want to keep ONE romantic pairing that survives amidst all the relationship carnage, they could keep that one. But everyone else must suffer because I hate kissy-face!Interesting rumor sprouting up - Loeb and Alexander were fired to make room for Byran Fuller now that Pushing Daisies is almost certain to be cancelled!
That would be great news for Heroes and bad but inevitable news for Pushing Daisies.
if he's responsible for overpowering and dumbing down characters, then he should be fired.
now that peter has been depowered (i knew he'd get the jean grey treatment sooner or later) i hope they don't give him back all his powers. that some sort of limiting factor is put on him like rogue has on her. also, hiro needs to be depowered because his powers used logically, they won't have much of a conflict. he can undo anything if he wanted or if he wasn't dumbed down. he needs a jean grey treatment too.
they should pull back the series tighter and not have like 6541616 characters. they don't get enough screen time so you really don't feel much for any of them. it's a great injustice to the characters and the actors playing them.
i hope this shakeup will bring the show quality back up.
now that peter has been depowered (i knew he'd get the jean grey treatment sooner or later) i hope they don't give him back all his powers. that some sort of limiting factor is put on him like rogue has on her. also, hiro needs to be depowered because his powers used logically, they won't have much of a conflict. he can undo anything if he wanted or if he wasn't dumbed down. he needs a jean grey treatment too.
they should pull back the series tighter and not have like 6541616 characters. they don't get enough screen time so you really don't feel much for any of them. it's a great injustice to the characters and the actors playing them.
i hope this shakeup will bring the show quality back up.
The man does write the current Hulk series about a red Hulk (Rulk
) who is much stronger than the green one and a lot of fans consider a dumbing down of the series from the previous Planet Hulk arc. So I suppose it is quite possible. He does come off as a person who will do something for no other reason than "it's kewl".They have already written an out for them to use for Hiro. Ando kills him. I think that as long as they give Ando good reason for doing so, they should stick with it and kill him for real. The only other way out would be for Arthur Petrelli to eat his power. But he already has it thanks to Peter. So kill him.
I think that Claire and the Bennet family should have been put on the back burner for this chapter. HRG made his deal to go back to the company to protect his family, yet they are continually interacting. The Bennets should have moved onto their next safe house and allowed some time to pass so that they can wrap up Claire's high school career off screen. She has enough ties to the Petrellis that she could return at any time, but she was really unneeded this chapter. It seems like she was left in to satisfy a hot young blond quota. And even there she is redundant with Elle and the new character Daphne. They need to let some characters fade away from the story from time to time, if only just to keep them fresh. Claude the Invisible Man is a good example of that.
And, like you, I also hope for improvement for this show. I am not as much of a nay-sayer as some seem to be. And I am nowhere near to giving up on this series. I can't remember anticipating a good evening of Monday night television since M*A*S*H was on the air.
The whole season was retarded.
No, did Loeb write a bad episode or something?
Is it too early to start thinking reboot? Would people accept new actors in this roles down the road or would it be better of just having a show called Heroes with brand new characters in brand new situations?
Limiting the powers would be a must, and the characters need to be smart enough to use their powers when they understand what they're capable of, so that you don't get someone who can read minds following a bad guy around like a obedient puppy.
Maybe Hiro can free time but not travel through time.
Maybe Peter can only use other peoples' powers if they're close to him like what we thought his power was during season one. Or if you really want to build up the Peter vs. Sylar arch nemesis, what if Peter could keep a power if that person died near him? Would he be willing to kill someone to take his power in the name of good?
Limiting the powers would be a must, and the characters need to be smart enough to use their powers when they understand what they're capable of, so that you don't get someone who can read minds following a bad guy around like a obedient puppy.
Maybe Hiro can free time but not travel through time.
Maybe Peter can only use other peoples' powers if they're close to him like what we thought his power was during season one. Or if you really want to build up the Peter vs. Sylar arch nemesis, what if Peter could keep a power if that person died near him? Would he be willing to kill someone to take his power in the name of good?
^Over 70 years of Superman has proven that there's nothing wrong with having a hero that's at the top of the food chain.
There's no reason to reboot anything. The simple motto "Don't Do Dumb Things" applies here. Taking Peter's powers away - dumb thing. Having Hiro fail to use his powers to fix problems without a good reason - dumb thing.
There's no reason to reboot anything. The simple motto "Don't Do Dumb Things" applies here. Taking Peter's powers away - dumb thing. Having Hiro fail to use his powers to fix problems without a good reason - dumb thing.
I don't think a reboot is necessary. We just need the characters this season to finally fall into a real role (instead of appearing where needed and being good/bad because it's shocking). At the end of this year, I want to have a definite idea in my head of who is good, who is bad, and I want most of the silly mysteries to be solved. That way Season 4 can start with a clean slate but not ignore everything that happened previously.
That is stupid to do that right now.
^ I suppose that is true. Silly me. I wonder how will people would react to some spoiler news I know about. I'll wait and see what happens.
She's suffering from the same ailment as Waaaaaaaalt's (from Lost). The young actress is growing up faster than the depicted events...
One thing that Heroes needs and doesn't yet have, is the one iconic comic archetype that they've skipped. The show needs a Batman, and not Chris Nolan's just-starting-out Batman, but Grant Morrison's always at least 12 moves ahead of the opposition, JLA Batman.
For a while, I thought maybe Noah could be this character, certainly, he's the closest thing the show has to it now. But Bennet's crossed the line too many times. Like Sylar/Gabriel, there's not much hope of redemption there.
You want the cast of Heroes to get smarter? Put in the character that will put them through a Darwinian course in keeping their butts out of jail or from being exposed to the public. Force them to grow up, fast.
For a while, I thought maybe Noah could be this character, certainly, he's the closest thing the show has to it now. But Bennet's crossed the line too many times. Like Sylar/Gabriel, there's not much hope of redemption there.
You want the cast of Heroes to get smarter? Put in the character that will put them through a Darwinian course in keeping their butts out of jail or from being exposed to the public. Force them to grow up, fast.
If Fuller comes back, I'll come back to check it out. Assuming he wants to climb aboard a sinking ship, which Heroes may be. It really is quite odd to fire producers this way. It really does seem like the network is laying the smack down, with the axe waiting in hand.
The biggest thing Heroes has going for it now is that some of the actors are very good (Pasdar, Quinto, Coleman) and some of the characters are very popular (Peter, Claire, Noah, Sylar/Gabriel, Nathan, Hiro) so losing the actors and the characters would be a very risky proposition.
And what would be gained? We'd still have the same old sloppy, illogical writing and a whole new group of characters to screw up. The audience won't necessarily bond with the new characters, so they'd have no motive to suffer through the bad stretches.
The producers haven't shown much ability to re-create the good job they did with the initial casting, which makes me think it was a lucky fluke. They could end up with a cast of Issacs, Simones, Mayas and Wests. Cancellation in three...two...
Heroes has a premise with no natural ending date, just like Star Trek. It could theoretically go on for years and years, with a natural turnover in the cast. Every so often, someone big dies or otherwise leaves, and new people are tried out. The ones that work stay on.
After ten years, you'd have a whole new cast. Or you could end the main show and start back up with a spin-off series. But this show probably doesn't have ten years or the ability to generate spin-offs anymore and the problems it faces are immediate. The idea of turning over the cast is something they could have done with a healthy franchise, but they can't afford to take that risk anymore.
Now that's the kind of casting that could really benefit the show. But would an Emmy nominee be happy to just have a recurring role or guest shot? There isn't room for anything much more substantial...I think Pace will be looking for his own new show...he'll be like Kristen Bell, hard to hang onto.
I don't think it's Heroes style to ever be that definite.
Someone important dies for real? Please let it be Hiro. Or Claire. Forget it, they'll never axe Claire for good. Dammit.
Oh wait, I know who it is. Noah. Everyone loves him, but he's got no character purpose other than to be Claire's daddy and protector. As she gains maturity, his purpose in the story will go away.
And if you're going to kill someone important, let's see them really go for it and kill the #1 favorite character.
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