Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
Maybe the OWN channel should do a show about Oprah in Space?
Maybe the OWN channel should do a show about Oprah in Space?
sf/f TV development news - 2013
- Thread starter Temis the Vorta
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
By coincidence, I spent the morning working on the cover copy for Shadow on the Sun, an old Richard Matheson novel that has, at a various points, been marketed as either a western or a horror novel. Berkeley originally published it as a category western back in the nineties, downplaying the book's more fantastic elements, but I'm packaging it as a supernatural horror novel, complete with a Stephen King quote on the cover.
Both approaches are correct. In truth, Shadow on the Sun is both horror and a western . . . .
(And a fun, spooky book, btw. Somebody really needs to make a movie version.)
So what? As noted, all sorts of non-SF material is lumped under "Sci Fi" by reviewers and Blockbuster clerks who don't know any better. That's sort of what kicked off the discussion.
And that's a straw man. There are also plenty of well-informed SF/fantasy creators and critics, including our own Greg Cox and myself, who understand that a lot of speculative/fantastic fiction actually does blur the lines between categories such as science fiction, fantasy, and horror. .
By coincidence, I spent the morning working on the cover copy for Shadow on the Sun, an old Richard Matheson novel that has, at a various points, been marketed as either a western or a horror novel. Berkeley originally published it as a category western back in the nineties, downplaying the book's more fantastic elements, but I'm packaging it as a supernatural horror novel, complete with a Stephen King quote on the cover.
Both approaches are correct. In truth, Shadow on the Sun is both horror and a western . . . .
(And a fun, spooky book, btw. Somebody really needs to make a movie version.)
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
At this point, I'll try anything.
Pilot buzz update...
NBC: Revolution looks solid for a pickup. Whether this will end up being another one of JJ Abrams' hyped-up flameouts is another matter. Look at how FOX got burned with Alcatraz and it's supposedly "amazing" plot twisty story that never actually materialized.
Do No Harm also looks solid, with The Frontier and Midnight Sun looking more like long shots now, tho I still hope NBC swings for the fences with a supernatural-ish Western. Of all its pilots, that one and Chicago Fire could make the most splash in Olympics ads, because they are unusual genres for TV that appeal to men.
ABC: Biggest surprise is no update for The Last Resort, which doesn't necessarily mean anything, but if ABC decides to go for an all-female-skewing strategy, that one could end up being passed on.
Gotham and 666 Park Ave appear to be duking it out for the post-OUAT slot, with Emmerich's Dark Horse as a maybe. Beauty & the Beast is a possibility, but needing to undergo "massive re-editing" this late in the game doesn't sound good. OUAT's ratings have cooled off enough that ABC may not be quite as high on fairy tales as they were a few months back.
At this point, I'll try anything.
Pilot buzz update...
NBC: Revolution looks solid for a pickup. Whether this will end up being another one of JJ Abrams' hyped-up flameouts is another matter. Look at how FOX got burned with Alcatraz and it's supposedly "amazing" plot twisty story that never actually materialized.
Do No Harm also looks solid, with The Frontier and Midnight Sun looking more like long shots now, tho I still hope NBC swings for the fences with a supernatural-ish Western. Of all its pilots, that one and Chicago Fire could make the most splash in Olympics ads, because they are unusual genres for TV that appeal to men.
ABC: Biggest surprise is no update for The Last Resort, which doesn't necessarily mean anything, but if ABC decides to go for an all-female-skewing strategy, that one could end up being passed on.
Gotham and 666 Park Ave appear to be duking it out for the post-OUAT slot, with Emmerich's Dark Horse as a maybe. Beauty & the Beast is a possibility, but needing to undergo "massive re-editing" this late in the game doesn't sound good. OUAT's ratings have cooled off enough that ABC may not be quite as high on fairy tales as they were a few months back.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
Just out of curiosity (and not being familiar with the book), do you think it should be marketed as Science Fiction?
How can I be missing the point when I've said that about a hundred times already?
So I guess then there's no reason to re-define either term then.
Just out of curiosity (and not being familiar with the book), do you think it should be marketed as Science Fiction?
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
I'll give ya guys something meatier to argue about: Revolution has been picked up to series.
And they're still saying it's "a world where all forms of energy have mysteriously ceased to exist." Plus I have no idea why that title makes sense for the premise.
My quatloos say this one goes the way of Terra Nova and Alcatraz, a lot of hand-waving smoke & mirrors about the mystery that goes nowhere, meanwhile the audience wonders when the zombies will liven things up.
PS, TNT is not going forward with their Western pilot, Tin Star aka Gateway. All I care about from them is LA Noir, which is still filming, so no way to get a read on it yet.
I'll give ya guys something meatier to argue about: Revolution has been picked up to series.
And they're still saying it's "a world where all forms of energy have mysteriously ceased to exist." Plus I have no idea why that title makes sense for the premise.
My quatloos say this one goes the way of Terra Nova and Alcatraz, a lot of hand-waving smoke & mirrors about the mystery that goes nowhere, meanwhile the audience wonders when the zombies will liven things up.
PS, TNT is not going forward with their Western pilot, Tin Star aka Gateway. All I care about from them is LA Noir, which is still filming, so no way to get a read on it yet.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
I can't help but think that Revolution is at least in part inspired by Stirling's "Dies the Fire", in that book various characters theorize about what caused the event, but it is not a plot point. It is just the event that sets everything else in motion.
I can't help but think that Revolution is at least in part inspired by Stirling's "Dies the Fire", in that book various characters theorize about what caused the event, but it is not a plot point. It is just the event that sets everything else in motion.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
So, the story is that the laws of physics change, but nobody puts any effort into finding out why or "changing it back" because that's not the story - instead, the story is how people cope with being cast back to the 19th C or even earlier, before telegraphs. Would steam power still work?
Anyway, that might be interesting, but hard to pull off. It depends so heavily on the characters being compelling and the audience caring whether they live or die. Just look at Alcatraz or Terra Nova and imagine those characters in this story. I wouldn't give a flip about any of it.
It could be great, but the odds would be better if they had some gimmick to amp the action every so often. Zombie attacks are a great way to distract from characters who are starting to annoy you.
So, the story is that the laws of physics change, but nobody puts any effort into finding out why or "changing it back" because that's not the story - instead, the story is how people cope with being cast back to the 19th C or even earlier, before telegraphs. Would steam power still work?
Anyway, that might be interesting, but hard to pull off. It depends so heavily on the characters being compelling and the audience caring whether they live or die. Just look at Alcatraz or Terra Nova and imagine those characters in this story. I wouldn't give a flip about any of it.
It could be great, but the odds would be better if they had some gimmick to amp the action every so often. Zombie attacks are a great way to distract from characters who are starting to annoy you.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
Is Stirling's Dies the Fire the opening of the series where he imagines the return of feudalism with modern people? (Yes, a contradiction in terms but there seems to be something wrong with Stirling's brain [Draka series.]) Revolution may be taking off from that and focusing on the overthrow of democracy/capitalism/namby pamby couch potatoes.
Raymond F. Jones' The Year When Stardust Fell had a similar but more logical premise, in which dust from a comet tail caused all metal moving surfaces in contact to cold weld. Voila! Basically no modern machinery. And this was published in 1958 before solid state electronics really took off.
Is Stirling's Dies the Fire the opening of the series where he imagines the return of feudalism with modern people? (Yes, a contradiction in terms but there seems to be something wrong with Stirling's brain [Draka series.]) Revolution may be taking off from that and focusing on the overthrow of democracy/capitalism/namby pamby couch potatoes.
Raymond F. Jones' The Year When Stardust Fell had a similar but more logical premise, in which dust from a comet tail caused all metal moving surfaces in contact to cold weld. Voila! Basically no modern machinery. And this was published in 1958 before solid state electronics really took off.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
Yeah Dies the Fire is Stirling's attempt at neo-feudalism.
If the eventual trailer for Revolution shows that guns and cars are not working anymore the suspicion that they are copying Stirling is just going to increase.
Yeah Dies the Fire is Stirling's attempt at neo-feudalism.
If the eventual trailer for Revolution shows that guns and cars are not working anymore the suspicion that they are copying Stirling is just going to increase.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
What the suits are looking for this season. Short answer: more comedies and attention getting dramas.
I checked out the cast of Revolution. Other than Giancarlo Esposito, nobody really stands out.
Here's a little more info; Esposito is the bad guy, so that's good news:
I was curious where the show is supposed to be set. They're filming the pilot in Atlanta, so maybe they can borrow some zombies from TWD?
Working Class Hero (basically, The Incredibles as a TV series) is still alive at FOX.
What the suits are looking for this season. Short answer: more comedies and attention getting dramas.
I checked out the cast of Revolution. Other than Giancarlo Esposito, nobody really stands out.
Here's a little more info; Esposito is the bad guy, so that's good news:
Edit: painfully corny cast photo. They've got their weapons of choice already!
I was curious where the show is supposed to be set. They're filming the pilot in Atlanta, so maybe they can borrow some zombies from TWD?
Working Class Hero (basically, The Incredibles as a TV series) is still alive at FOX.
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Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
So judging from the cast photo guns are inoperable. Good, it'll give the show a different flavor than Walking Dead. I just hope they're willing to go as dark as the premise demands.
So judging from the cast photo guns are inoperable. Good, it'll give the show a different flavor than Walking Dead. I just hope they're willing to go as dark as the premise demands.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
No more event-dramas.
Let's see--JJ Abrams + NBC + apocalyptic atmosphere= MEHI checked out the cast of Revolution. Other than Giancarlo Esposito, nobody really stands out.
Here's a little more info; Esposito is the bad guy, so that's good news:
Edit: painfully corny cast photo. They've got their weapons of choice already!
I was curious where the show is supposed to be set. They're filming the pilot in Atlanta, so maybe they can borrow some zombies from TWD?
No Ordinary Family was canned a few years ago--no thanks.
No more event-dramas.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
No, you've been saying just the opposite. You've been insisting on a narrow definition of "Western" that excludes any hybrids of Western elements with other genres or settings. You're trying to erect rigid walls between genres and define them in exclusionistic terms, which is grossly missing the point of what genre is.
How can I be missing the point when I've said that about a hundred times already?
No, you've been saying just the opposite. You've been insisting on a narrow definition of "Western" that excludes any hybrids of Western elements with other genres or settings. You're trying to erect rigid walls between genres and define them in exclusionistic terms, which is grossly missing the point of what genre is.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
Revolution doesn't sound intriguing at all. The "all forms of energy" makes no sense. Presumably, it's just meant to take away technology, but they will still be able to have campfires and stuff (not to mention cellular activity), but it sounds like a bland post-whimpering-Apocalypse to me.
Revolution doesn't sound intriguing at all. The "all forms of energy" makes no sense. Presumably, it's just meant to take away technology, but they will still be able to have campfires and stuff (not to mention cellular activity), but it sounds like a bland post-whimpering-Apocalypse to me.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
You obviously haven't been paying attention. I've said many, many times that concepts can and do fall into multiple genres. Go back and re-read. Why would the fact that words have meanings mean that you can't use more than one word?How can I be missing the point when I've said that about a hundred times already?
No, you've been saying just the opposite. You've been insisting on a narrow definition of "Western" that excludes any hybrids of Western elements with other genres or settings. You're trying to erect rigid walls between genres and define them in exclusionistic terms, which is grossly missing the point of what genre is.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
Yes, you've said that about other things, but you're stubbornly ignoring it when it comes to how Westerns are defined. So you're not even being consistent.
Yes, you've said that about other things, but you're stubbornly ignoring it when it comes to how Westerns are defined. So you're not even being consistent.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
So ABSOLUTELY NOTHING happened in new York City between 1840 and 1890?
(Far and Away, and the Gangs of New York?)
So ABSOLUTELY NOTHING happened in new York City between 1840 and 1890?
(Far and Away, and the Gangs of New York?)
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
The first thing I would say is that Outland isn't without semantic elements of the Western genre, such as the mining town setting and the town marshal (complete with tin star and shotgun) who stubbornly sticks to his ideals against all else.
The second thing I would say is yes. I'm not sure why you're so aggressively arguing against this idea, since you claim that you have no problems with genre hybridization.
Your definition of the Western film is narrow to the point of excluding Western films that aren't even on the fringes of the genre. That's a textbook example of a useless generic definition.
First, looking at reviews of The Proposition on Metacritic, I can't find a single one that doesn't call the film a Western. You might think some of these reviewers are knuckleheads, but do you really suggest dismissing them all? Historically, I should point out, film critics have often played an important role in establishing generic terms. "Musical," for example, was just an adjective to describe other genres until film critics began using it to describe what we now understand as a genre (Rick Altman has a great book on the musical that discusses this in detail).
Second, you've ignored a key part of my point here, which not only was that shopkeepers and reviewers identified these films as Westerns, but the producers of these films also identified them as such. I suppose you're dismissing them, too?
Borders obviously have something to do with it, since you've dismissed the thought of Australian Westerns based on geography alone. I'm not sure why you've introduced California's statehood (1850) to the conversation, although I suspect you'd subscribe to a definition that limits the genre to films taking place in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.
Of course, your geographic limitations eliminate Westerns like Rage at Dawn (which takes place in Pennsylvania) and Saskatchewan (which takes place in Canada).
The first thing I would say is that Outland isn't without semantic elements of the Western genre, such as the mining town setting and the town marshal (complete with tin star and shotgun) who stubbornly sticks to his ideals against all else.
The second thing I would say is yes. I'm not sure why you're so aggressively arguing against this idea, since you claim that you have no problems with genre hybridization.
Your definition of the Western film is narrow to the point of excluding Western films that aren't even on the fringes of the genre. That's a textbook example of a useless generic definition.
First, looking at reviews of The Proposition on Metacritic, I can't find a single one that doesn't call the film a Western. You might think some of these reviewers are knuckleheads, but do you really suggest dismissing them all? Historically, I should point out, film critics have often played an important role in establishing generic terms. "Musical," for example, was just an adjective to describe other genres until film critics began using it to describe what we now understand as a genre (Rick Altman has a great book on the musical that discusses this in detail).
Second, you've ignored a key part of my point here, which not only was that shopkeepers and reviewers identified these films as Westerns, but the producers of these films also identified them as such. I suppose you're dismissing them, too?
Borders obviously have something to do with it, since you've dismissed the thought of Australian Westerns based on geography alone. I'm not sure why you've introduced California's statehood (1850) to the conversation, although I suspect you'd subscribe to a definition that limits the genre to films taking place in the nineteenth and early twentieth centuries.
Of course, your geographic limitations eliminate Westerns like Rage at Dawn (which takes place in Pennsylvania) and Saskatchewan (which takes place in Canada).
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
At least I won't have to keep yelling at the TV, WHY DON'T YOU ALL HAVE CROSSBOWS BY NOW!!! Like I do with a certain other show that shall remain nameless. Maybe the Revolution people glommed the entire crossbow supply in the greater Atlanta area.
If fire doesn't work, then that begs other questions - why does human metabolism still work? And that way lies madness.
Wiping out all the technology in such a specific and targetted way can only be explained as a prelude to alien invasion.
At least I won't have to keep yelling at the TV, WHY DON'T YOU ALL HAVE CROSSBOWS BY NOW!!!
Like I do with a certain other show that shall remain nameless. Maybe the Revolution people glommed the entire crossbow supply in the greater Atlanta area.If fire doesn't work, then that begs other questions - why does human metabolism still work? And that way lies madness.
Wiping out all the technology in such a specific and targetted way can only be explained as a prelude to alien invasion.
Re: sf/f TV development news - 2012
But then how could we tell which one is Darryl and which one is the other ones?At least I won't have to keep yelling at the TV, WHY DON'T YOU ALL HAVE CROSSBOWS BY NOW!!!
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