Well, to be honest the first thing that came to my mind when I read the original post was:
"I had no idea D. Strauss-Kahn is back in New York!"
Sexy or Creepy?
- Thread starter thestrangequark
- Start date
Well, to be honest the first thing that came to my mind when I read the original post was:
"I had no idea D. Strauss-Kahn is back in New York!"
I voted for sexy. There is a tinge of inappropriateness to the whole thing, but that's part of what makes it so exciting and unexpected. If he had continued to follow you home after the encounter I would start to be worried, but otherwise it doesn't seem like any harm was done. I do think he went a little far with the French kissing and the groping, a regular mouth kiss would have made the situation just perfect in my mind (just the right amount of sweet and sexy unexpectedness), but oh well, nobody's perfect!
If this were to happen to me...well, it wouldn't happen to me, because as soon as he approached me on the street and asked to walk with me I would have said no and tried to walk away as quickly as possible, but that's because I am cynical and prefer to be alone rather than in the company of other human beings. I fully admit I do not open myself up to such exciting (aka anxiety-inducing) encounters in life. But I can still recognize that others do and have a lot of fun while at it, so have at it I say.
If this were to happen to me...well, it wouldn't happen to me, because as soon as he approached me on the street and asked to walk with me I would have said no and tried to walk away as quickly as possible, but that's because I am cynical and prefer to be alone rather than in the company of other human beings. I fully admit I do not open myself up to such exciting (aka anxiety-inducing) encounters in life. But I can still recognize that others do and have a lot of fun while at it, so have at it I say.
Would this situation had been "sexy" if:
The man wasn't French.
The man spoke no French.
The man wasn't attractive.
The man didn't claim to "know" the woman.
The man didn't claim to be "in town for one night only."
The encounter took place either during the Summer with sweltering heat or the dead of Witner with bitter cold.
The encounter took place in the middle of day so it was not under backdrop of a sunset.
The encounter took place on a dingy city street with traffic honking and going on in the background rather than the somewhat isolated setting of a bridge in a park.
I think the "sexy" people are wrapped in the movie-like experience presented in the flowery prose of the OP.
Had this been just a regular man off the street this, I'd wager, would have a lot less of an air of romance in it.
The man wasn't French.
The man spoke no French.
The man wasn't attractive.
The man didn't claim to "know" the woman.
The man didn't claim to be "in town for one night only."
The encounter took place either during the Summer with sweltering heat or the dead of Witner with bitter cold.
The encounter took place in the middle of day so it was not under backdrop of a sunset.
The encounter took place on a dingy city street with traffic honking and going on in the background rather than the somewhat isolated setting of a bridge in a park.
I think the "sexy" people are wrapped in the movie-like experience presented in the flowery prose of the OP.
Had this been just a regular man off the street this, I'd wager, would have a lot less of an air of romance in it.
A
Amaris
Guest
Just my own perspective, but:
Possibly.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Nah.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Possibly.
Nah.
If TSQ had resisted, which she didn't, it would've been a totally different scenario. I didn't think the encounter was creepy because she was open to the experience. How the guy would've reacted to her resistance, hypothetically, we'll never know, and I do believe it's a moot point
A
Amaris
Guest
Honestly, though, Trekker, the question is kind of silly. I mean, "what if the romantic situation wasn't actually romantic? Would it still be romantic?!"
Well, hell, if we're doing that, what if you kissed a girl on a first date and was gushing about it and found out later that she was a serial killer who liked to make lampshades out of human skin? Does that dampen your enthusiasm a bit? You going to come back in and say "all of you who were happy for me were wrong. Now don't you feel stupid for congratulating me?" What a silly question. Jesus.
Well, hell, if we're doing that, what if you kissed a girl on a first date and was gushing about it and found out later that she was a serial killer who liked to make lampshades out of human skin? Does that dampen your enthusiasm a bit? You going to come back in and say "all of you who were happy for me were wrong. Now don't you feel stupid for congratulating me?" What a silly question. Jesus.
I just believe most of the "sexy" voters are not considering the reality of the situation but rather reading the flowering prose of the OP and getting wrapped up in it. With the French, the sun set, the Mysterious Stranger, all of that. It reads like a trailer for a Valentine's Weekend rom-com.
A
Amaris
Guest
I fucked a stranger after knowing her for about an hour. It was awesome. You should direct your ire towards me for my totally reckless decision. All TSQ did was get kissed by a charming man who swept her a bit off her feet. Changing the parameters changes the situation entirely. Again, think about it:
If we change the man from french and charming, to a seedy hobo, and from a bridge to a back alley, it doesn't seem right does it? That's because IT'S NOW AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT SITUATION. The original no longer applies, because it's different. So here we have another example:
It's like the guys who used to argue with me when their team would lose the Superbowl. It's always "well if we would have won you wouldn't be laughing". No shit, but my team did win, I am laughing, you do owe me $20. Anything else is useless idle speculation, better luck next time.
My answers to Trekker's questions/circumstances would be different because the context was different in TSQ's case. If the guy was hideous, if the weather had been bad or she was in a foul mood, of course, everything would have transpired differently! Or maybe not. Those are all hypothetical. At this point, there's no need to dwell on the what-ifs.
A
Amaris
Guest
Good point. There was this one hobo I saw who looked pretty good. I had to say no, though. Her sign was in the wrong font.
Oh, sure there is! Speculation is fun! What if he wasn't French, but was, instead, a Gargoliam Flemworm? What if he smelt of elderberries? What if he was a member of the pan-galactic organization seeking to impregnate women, and the bridge they were on was the incubating chamber?!
Maybe it being romantic IS the reality of the situation, but since you don't believe in love, obviously you must not believe that such romantic situations can occur. I don't think him being French matters, but the location might make a difference (if it was in a dark deserted alley it would feel more uncomfortable), and of course sunsets are going to make the situation more romantic. But, it being in a dark alley at 11 PM with a guy from New Jersey is not the reality of the situation. It being with a Frenchman during a sunset on a picturesque bridge is the reality, so let's just deal with that. And I happen to think that situation sounds somewhat sexy, although I admit I wouldn't have put myself in that position because of my own issues.
Where's my imagination? 
Comic Sans claims another victim.
Mr Awe
He lied? How do you know that? I can't know if he lied about anything so clearly you can't either. And yes, some women would feel violated in such a situation, but some women feel violated by catcalls and others take them as compliments, some feel violated when a man comments on their appearance and others enjoy it. I was not manipulated, I was not violated. I was at first uncertain of this unfamiliar territory was too forward, but have since decided that for me, in that time and place, it was not. I guess I'm just not so hung up about sex.
An Officer, you make an interesting point, but I have to disagree. While I do consider myself a feminist, one can't hold all women to the same ideal of behavior, because we all have different standards. For me, a flirty, giggly, smiling "No," followed a few minutes later by an agreement to a little kiss (oh, and thanks for correcting my French, by the way, folks--I wasn't lying when I said it was rusty!), is ambiguous enough that his persistance was not in the wrong. I just think you're going a little far in extrapolating the broad consequences of one little moment. That's just my opinion, though.
Daily I deal with creepy men who try to pick me up on the street, or who don't even bother with such formalities and just make grabs (doesn't happen as often, but has happened to me several times). Believe me, these assholes know that I mean no when I say no.
Trekker, you just seem completely incapable of seeing anything without wrapping it first in cynicism and unhappiness. You have to remember, though, that some of us are capable of sharing a romantic kiss on a bridge (not a bridge in a park though, I don't know where you got that idea -- the Williamsburg Bridge goes from Brooklyn to Manhattan), and being happy about it. There is innocence and romance in the world, even if you have a hard time seeing it.
Oh, and again on the boob thing: if a man doesn't feel comfortable putting his hands on the woman he's frenching then he's not doing it right!
He lied? How do you know that? I can't know if he lied about anything so clearly you can't either. And yes, some women would feel violated in such a situation, but some women feel violated by catcalls and others take them as compliments, some feel violated when a man comments on their appearance and others enjoy it. I was not manipulated, I was not violated. I was at first uncertain of this unfamiliar territory was too forward, but have since decided that for me, in that time and place, it was not. I guess I'm just not so hung up about sex.
An Officer, you make an interesting point, but I have to disagree. While I do consider myself a feminist, one can't hold all women to the same ideal of behavior, because we all have different standards. For me, a flirty, giggly, smiling "No," followed a few minutes later by an agreement to a little kiss (oh, and thanks for correcting my French, by the way, folks--I wasn't lying when I said it was rusty!), is ambiguous enough that his persistance was not in the wrong. I just think you're going a little far in extrapolating the broad consequences of one little moment. That's just my opinion, though.
Daily I deal with creepy men who try to pick me up on the street, or who don't even bother with such formalities and just make grabs (doesn't happen as often, but has happened to me several times). Believe me, these assholes know that I mean no when I say no.
Trekker, you just seem completely incapable of seeing anything without wrapping it first in cynicism and unhappiness. You have to remember, though, that some of us are capable of sharing a romantic kiss on a bridge (not a bridge in a park though, I don't know where you got that idea -- the Williamsburg Bridge goes from Brooklyn to Manhattan), and being happy about it. There is innocence and romance in the world, even if you have a hard time seeing it.
Oh, and again on the boob thing: if a man doesn't feel comfortable putting his hands on the woman he's frenching then he's not doing it right!
The thing I keep going back to is this, we favor spontaneity in romance, but sometimes things are genuinely unwanted. How do you know? Well hopefully you can just tell. In other cases, you are just wrong and it was a stupid, stupid idea. He was either lucky or he could tell, but it worked for him. I suppose it's the nature of a message board that we've analyzed this to death, but this doesn't strike me as something that can be dissected.
I'm incapable of seeing anything without cynicism and unhappiness because it's pretty much all I have left. As for the park thing, I guess I just somehow gleamed it through your OP, not knowing the names of structures and such in your area, I've no idea why I cam to that conclusion.
I'm sure there is plenty of innocence and romance in the world and I do see it, I just don't get any of it because I'm not a handsome man who speaks French who can pick-up random women on the street.
It was, above, my underlining point that this situation would not have happened if this was just an everyday-Joe. You said so yourself that when he went in for the kiss and grope you normally would have defended yourself.
It's a nice story, TSQ, and I'm glad you seem to have enjoyed it have a lovely story to tell. For me? It makes me hate handsome Frenchmen more than I already do, and I have experience with hating handsome Frenchmen and I personally believe that had this been a normal-looking guy, or wasn't French (or at least French speaking) then you would have walked on by him. Or given him more of a brush-off when he spoke to you thinking you were someone else.
Just my opinion.
Ultimately whether this is sexy or not comes down to the result. tsq did enjoy it - so we can see it as the Frenchman reading her well and therefore going only where he thought she wanted to go, not forcing unwanted attentions on her.
Had tsq meant the 'no' more strongly and he still kissed her then there'd be few, if any, on here who would see it as anything but creepy.
Some level of consent has to be there. Which is why wolf-whistling can be harassment. It's harassment for any woman who doesn't want that level of attention. Some women do like the attention, others do not and since the whistlers do not discriminate, that is harassing.
(EDIT: Also, the fact that he's French is pretty much irrelevant, tsq thought he was charming, that's what's important. A "regular joe" can be as charming as a Frenchman - more so in my book
)
Had tsq meant the 'no' more strongly and he still kissed her then there'd be few, if any, on here who would see it as anything but creepy.
Some level of consent has to be there. Which is why wolf-whistling can be harassment. It's harassment for any woman who doesn't want that level of attention. Some women do like the attention, others do not and since the whistlers do not discriminate, that is harassing.
(EDIT: Also, the fact that he's French is pretty much irrelevant, tsq thought he was charming, that's what's important. A "regular joe" can be as charming as a Frenchman - more so in my book
)
^And I've met some Frenchmen who were decisively NOT charming!
Trekker, the reason I disregarded your point was because you changed the scenario so completely that your point no longer made much sense: of course I wouldn't let a man near me in some dark, dingy alley, or without a lot of people around, or if he looked like a thug! As for your bitterness about handsom Frenchmen, that's all you, man. My tastes in men are unusual, I've been told so by many a girlfriend. What I find attractive is simply that, what I find attractive. To another girl maybe this particular guy would be a big nothing, to another, perhaps his looks would be a turnoff. To me, I liked the look of him. And, whilst I've joked about being shallow before, I am not, nor do I appreciate the implication that I am.
I've gone through enough shit to be bitter and cynical too (believe me, I'm not exaggerating when I say of gone through way more than most people here could imagine, okay?), but you know what? If bitterness all you project, all you do is make yourself and everyone around you miserable. It's allowable every once in awhile, but you seem to base your entire personality in gloom, and that's your choice.
Trekker, the reason I disregarded your point was because you changed the scenario so completely that your point no longer made much sense: of course I wouldn't let a man near me in some dark, dingy alley, or without a lot of people around, or if he looked like a thug! As for your bitterness about handsom Frenchmen, that's all you, man. My tastes in men are unusual, I've been told so by many a girlfriend. What I find attractive is simply that, what I find attractive. To another girl maybe this particular guy would be a big nothing, to another, perhaps his looks would be a turnoff. To me, I liked the look of him. And, whilst I've joked about being shallow before, I am not, nor do I appreciate the implication that I am.
I've gone through enough shit to be bitter and cynical too (believe me, I'm not exaggerating when I say of gone through way more than most people here could imagine, okay?), but you know what? If bitterness all you project, all you do is make yourself and everyone around you miserable. It's allowable every once in awhile, but you seem to base your entire personality in gloom, and that's your choice.
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