Yes, I remember now, in the restroom during the "overtime contingency." Father is thinking he is talking to Helena the outie, but is actually talking to Helly R, the innie.
Spoilers Severance on Apple+
- Thread starter Commander Troi
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It's very, very funny that after episode 3 the Reddit fanbase praised the series for moving so quickly, because a lesser show (like Silo!) would have waited until the end of the season to start reintegration.
Yeah, about that.
Well, how long has it been since the season actually started? I kinda feel like with the exception of last week’s, each episode takes place over the course of a day or so. Helly said it’s been two days since Mark has been at work. So, presumedly two days since they slept together in Episode 6.
The ORTBO in episode 4 took place on the weekend so, episode 5 would be Monday, episode 6, Tuesday, 7 and 8 concurrently happening on Wednesday and episode 9 on Thursday. The majority of this season is taking place over a week. I mean, yes, they could up the action in the show for sure, but I’m not sure that this is that kind of show.
I’ve been enjoying the ride even if it could get sped up just a little bit.
The ORTBO in episode 4 took place on the weekend so, episode 5 would be Monday, episode 6, Tuesday, 7 and 8 concurrently happening on Wednesday and episode 9 on Thursday. The majority of this season is taking place over a week. I mean, yes, they could up the action in the show for sure, but I’m not sure that this is that kind of show.
I’ve been enjoying the ride even if it could get sped up just a little bit.
After last weeks episode I went and watched the TZ episode of the same name.
While the Severance episode "The after Hours" makes a direct reference to the TZ episode in Kobel's conversation with the guard at the Lumon Birthing huts, I realized watching the TZ episode that there is more in common between the episodes than on the surface.
Like the "Innies" Marsha White (the mannequin in the TZ episode) does not realize shes a mannequin until the end. Her "outie" to use the Severance term has no idea about her mannequin self and is shcoked and confused, much like we see Helly R when we first meet her. Gradually Marsha comes around and accepts her reality.
Similarly like Severance an elevator plays a central role in the seperation between the Mannequins and the life-like "outie" self. The Mannequins exist on a floor of the department store that is not accessable to the general public, much like the severance floor. It is in the elevator that the mannequins are transported between their "innie" and "outie" self.
It should also be noted that one of the mannequins even speaks of an "outer self":
When you're on the outside,
Everything seems so normal.
As if--
As if
What, Marsha?
As if we were
Like the others.
Like the outsiders.
Like the real people.
All in all I'd almost go to say that the Twilight Zone episode "The After Hours" is like the spiritual predecessor to Severance.
While the Severance episode "The after Hours" makes a direct reference to the TZ episode in Kobel's conversation with the guard at the Lumon Birthing huts, I realized watching the TZ episode that there is more in common between the episodes than on the surface.
Like the "Innies" Marsha White (the mannequin in the TZ episode) does not realize shes a mannequin until the end. Her "outie" to use the Severance term has no idea about her mannequin self and is shcoked and confused, much like we see Helly R when we first meet her. Gradually Marsha comes around and accepts her reality.
Similarly like Severance an elevator plays a central role in the seperation between the Mannequins and the life-like "outie" self. The Mannequins exist on a floor of the department store that is not accessable to the general public, much like the severance floor. It is in the elevator that the mannequins are transported between their "innie" and "outie" self.
It should also be noted that one of the mannequins even speaks of an "outer self":
When you're on the outside,
Everything seems so normal.
As if--
As if
What, Marsha?
As if we were
Like the others.
Like the outsiders.
Like the real people.
All in all I'd almost go to say that the Twilight Zone episode "The After Hours" is like the spiritual predecessor to Severance.
I'm developing a real love/hate relationship with this show. When it's good, it grabs me like nothing else. When it's not...well, holy cow has it become frustrating.
In isolation this was a good finale but there's so many dropped or abandoned elements this season.
Why the focus on (and explicit call out about) pineapples in the first couple episodes?
Why the implication there was a sinister motivation behind the "family meeting room" when it turned out to be on the up and up?
Why create the character of Miss Huang only to have her do nothing and then leave?
Why does Irv know what he knows? What the heck was going on with Bert?
Why remember Petey just long enough to have his actor record V.O for episode 3, then never bring him up again?
Why start Mark on reintegrating and then do nothing with it for the rest of the season?
Why drop Cobel for five episodes? Why make her the inventor of severance and then do nothing with that information?
Why start a storyline with Ricken writing for Lumon if you're going to forget about it halfway through?
Etc. etc. etc.
In isolation this was a good finale but there's so many dropped or abandoned elements this season.
Why the focus on (and explicit call out about) pineapples in the first couple episodes?
Why the implication there was a sinister motivation behind the "family meeting room" when it turned out to be on the up and up?
Why create the character of Miss Huang only to have her do nothing and then leave?
Why does Irv know what he knows? What the heck was going on with Bert?
Why remember Petey just long enough to have his actor record V.O for episode 3, then never bring him up again?
Why start Mark on reintegrating and then do nothing with it for the rest of the season?
Why drop Cobel for five episodes? Why make her the inventor of severance and then do nothing with that information?
Why start a storyline with Ricken writing for Lumon if you're going to forget about it halfway through?
Etc. etc. etc.
Milchick and Egan. They will never be Laurel and Hardy, or Abbott and Costello.
Dr. Mauer to Nurse Cecily: "Call Mr. Drummond!"
Mr. Drummond is busy... ...holding the elevator.
Mr. Milchick finds out that Helly R plays a mean trombone.
Dylan G and the band with the final, "F
k you, Mr. Milchick."
Dr. Mauer to Nurse Cecily: "Call Mr. Drummond!"
Mr. Drummond is busy... ...holding the elevator.
Mr. Milchick finds out that Helly R plays a mean trombone.
Dylan G and the band with the final, "F
k you, Mr. Milchick."
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Okay...
Overall I'd say that was very good. I like that Innie Mark did right by his Outie and rescued Gemma, but did not join her. Now what happens when Mark goes back outside? That's assuming he survives...
"They gave us half a life and expected we wouldn't fight for it."
The whole Mark talking to himself via the video recorder scene...just brilliant.
Drummond...I enjoyed his death quite a bit. Asshole.
The scene with Milchick and Egan...so fucking creepy and weird. As was the whole "goat leads the dead to Kier" thing.
So basically Lumon is making a chip where all the unpleasant things you have to do get done by "someone else" (like the birthing center). But also a chip they can control remotely (what will they do to Gemma, now that she's out?). Miss Huang warned Milchick about "treating the Innies like people", and now we can see why. The system won't work unless the Innies are passive and accepting of their limited existence.
Ultimately you can say Severance is a love story. Mark and Helly...
I hope the next season gives us a little more about the outside world. How far does their reach go ("206 countries")? What is the ultimate goal, writ large?
Good stuff.
Overall I'd say that was very good. I like that Innie Mark did right by his Outie and rescued Gemma, but did not join her. Now what happens when Mark goes back outside? That's assuming he survives...
"They gave us half a life and expected we wouldn't fight for it."
The whole Mark talking to himself via the video recorder scene...just brilliant.
Drummond...I enjoyed his death quite a bit. Asshole.
The scene with Milchick and Egan...so fucking creepy and weird. As was the whole "goat leads the dead to Kier" thing.
So basically Lumon is making a chip where all the unpleasant things you have to do get done by "someone else" (like the birthing center). But also a chip they can control remotely (what will they do to Gemma, now that she's out?). Miss Huang warned Milchick about "treating the Innies like people", and now we can see why. The system won't work unless the Innies are passive and accepting of their limited existence.
Ultimately you can say Severance is a love story. Mark and Helly...
I hope the next season gives us a little more about the outside world. How far does their reach go ("206 countries")? What is the ultimate goal, writ large?
Good stuff.
"They gave us half a life and expected we wouldn't fight for it."
What a phenomenal, devastating finale.
I don't know what I loved more. Milchick's abrupt and hysterical running away from Dylan because of Dylan's "embarrassing emotional response." Or perhaps Outie Dylan's sincere and frank response to Innie Dylan's resignation request. Or possibly, Mark and Helly's absurd disccusion about what the Equator might actually be. Or maybe wax figure Kier verbally abusing Milchick. Or perchance, the genuinely dramatic moments of Mark completing the Cold Harbor file. Or even the return of Dancing Milchick alongside Choreography and Merriment's godsdamn marching band within the halls of the severance floor. Or concievably Lorne turning on Mr. Drummond for the sake of her beloved goats (but apparently "no more killing" didn't extend to his own life...). Or, honestly, how Lumon's alarm system blaring loudly with big flashing red lights immediately made me think someone forgot to input the damn Numbers and it's the end of the world, brotha!
Truthfully, until the final moments, my favorite part of the whole episode was Outie Mark's conversation with Innie Mark via a camcorder. A brilliant mechanism to allow the two of them to converse finally and in an open and honest manner about each others goals and desires...before it all came crumbling down when the reality of Innie Mark's very existence and wishes to remain with Helly were brought forth. Even before Innie Mark's legitimate anger and distress came out, I could feel the conversation turning the moment Outie Mark compared his love for Gemma to Innie Mark's love for Helly...but got Helly's name wrong. I knew there was no coming back from that considering the impractical implications of reintegration in the face of the dual relationships each Marks have with different women (and now I'm starting to sound like Milchick...). And that's the very crux the whole episode, and the season, and the show, has weighed upon.
Which brings me to my actual favorite moment. The long-awaited reunion between Outie Mark and Gemma. The emotional burst of relief and love and anguish and fear broke out all at once but couldn't last longer than a moment because of the urgency of escaping from the testing floor. I loved seeing the creepy old men collectively shitting their pants at the failure of their grand project right at the moment of its fruition. But even that wasn't enough to overcome my heartbreak when Innie Mark decided to stay with Helly after getting Gemma out of Lumon (...or at least to the emergency escape stairwell...). Despite knowing he would hold back the moment Gemma stepped through that threshold, I still anguished at the sight of Innie Mark reflecting on his earlier argument with Outie Mark and deciding to embrace his existence, however temporary, all for the sake of his love for Helly.
And of course the episode would end on the two of them running through the corridors to the tune of Mel Torme (excellent song choice!), freezing on a frame that felt like it came right out of Logan's Run.
Fuck, it's going to be a long wait until season three.
P.S. I need a high resolution image of that mural that greeted everyone in the lobby.
What a phenomenal, devastating finale.
I don't know what I loved more. Milchick's abrupt and hysterical running away from Dylan because of Dylan's "embarrassing emotional response." Or perhaps Outie Dylan's sincere and frank response to Innie Dylan's resignation request. Or possibly, Mark and Helly's absurd disccusion about what the Equator might actually be. Or maybe wax figure Kier verbally abusing Milchick. Or perchance, the genuinely dramatic moments of Mark completing the Cold Harbor file. Or even the return of Dancing Milchick alongside Choreography and Merriment's godsdamn marching band within the halls of the severance floor. Or concievably Lorne turning on Mr. Drummond for the sake of her beloved goats (but apparently "no more killing" didn't extend to his own life...). Or, honestly, how Lumon's alarm system blaring loudly with big flashing red lights immediately made me think someone forgot to input the damn Numbers and it's the end of the world, brotha!
Truthfully, until the final moments, my favorite part of the whole episode was Outie Mark's conversation with Innie Mark via a camcorder. A brilliant mechanism to allow the two of them to converse finally and in an open and honest manner about each others goals and desires...before it all came crumbling down when the reality of Innie Mark's very existence and wishes to remain with Helly were brought forth. Even before Innie Mark's legitimate anger and distress came out, I could feel the conversation turning the moment Outie Mark compared his love for Gemma to Innie Mark's love for Helly...but got Helly's name wrong. I knew there was no coming back from that considering the impractical implications of reintegration in the face of the dual relationships each Marks have with different women (and now I'm starting to sound like Milchick...). And that's the very crux the whole episode, and the season, and the show, has weighed upon.
Which brings me to my actual favorite moment. The long-awaited reunion between Outie Mark and Gemma. The emotional burst of relief and love and anguish and fear broke out all at once but couldn't last longer than a moment because of the urgency of escaping from the testing floor. I loved seeing the creepy old men collectively shitting their pants at the failure of their grand project right at the moment of its fruition. But even that wasn't enough to overcome my heartbreak when Innie Mark decided to stay with Helly after getting Gemma out of Lumon (...or at least to the emergency escape stairwell...). Despite knowing he would hold back the moment Gemma stepped through that threshold, I still anguished at the sight of Innie Mark reflecting on his earlier argument with Outie Mark and deciding to embrace his existence, however temporary, all for the sake of his love for Helly.
And of course the episode would end on the two of them running through the corridors to the tune of Mel Torme (excellent song choice!), freezing on a frame that felt like it came right out of Logan's Run.
Fuck, it's going to be a long wait until season three.
P.S. I need a high resolution image of that mural that greeted everyone in the lobby.
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I KNEW that looked familiar!
Not much to add. A truly mindbending finale. I'm really glad the goat didn't get killed. Dichen and Adam both were amazing.
My biggest takeaway from that video, after how much cooler Travis Trammell is than the rest of us, is that I need Ben Schwartz on this show.
I'm glad someone else appreciated that moment!
It did introduce the bolt gun for Mark to use on Mr. Drummond. Which soaked Mark's clothing in Mr. Drummond's blood, that allowed Mark to open the door to the Cold Harbor Room and free his outie wife.
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That killed the bat that ate the rat that lived in the house that Frasier built.
I just finished season two. That was hard work.
I enjoyed the first four, then it just went off the rails hard.
I could barely keep attention at the end. I don't care about the Mark/Helly relationship which seemed to underpin much of the story, but then also I don't get *they* feel it that much. they kissed once, then fucked once, and now we're meant to be buy into this deep connection.
I feel it lost its centre. I liked when it felt like an ensemble, then it just felt like 'bits'. Ram Ms Cobel into a pointless episode as we can't sequence her stuff amongst the rest of the story. Send off Irv. And it just seemed the characters ran around and did stuff without any interference. Season 1 felt tightly controlled and claustrophobic, now it just seems they can wander and do whatever they want. No one is in control.
And the show is just trying to be that friend that goes "I'm quirky. I'm so quirkly. Oh my god I woke up and had purple hair I'm so quirky, that's me. And I put milk in my coffee first, how crazy am IIII?". That whole band scene is evidence of that.
And did they get a discount on Hue bulbs?
I enjoyed the first four, then it just went off the rails hard.
I could barely keep attention at the end. I don't care about the Mark/Helly relationship which seemed to underpin much of the story, but then also I don't get *they* feel it that much. they kissed once, then fucked once, and now we're meant to be buy into this deep connection.
I feel it lost its centre. I liked when it felt like an ensemble, then it just felt like 'bits'. Ram Ms Cobel into a pointless episode as we can't sequence her stuff amongst the rest of the story. Send off Irv. And it just seemed the characters ran around and did stuff without any interference. Season 1 felt tightly controlled and claustrophobic, now it just seems they can wander and do whatever they want. No one is in control.
And the show is just trying to be that friend that goes "I'm quirky. I'm so quirkly. Oh my god I woke up and had purple hair I'm so quirky, that's me. And I put milk in my coffee first, how crazy am IIII?". That whole band scene is evidence of that.
And did they get a discount on Hue bulbs?
I would love to know what the season was going to be before all the rumored reshoots. Eps. 1 - 3 seemed to be setting the season up to go a particular direction, and then it...didn't.
They know the MDE was popular and they're trying to recapture that, IMO. It's bad when a show lets it own popularity dictate what it does.
I went into the season trying to modulate my expectations; much as I love season 1 there was no clear way the show could continue with these four main characters. The finale completed their emotional arcs and blew up the premise of the show. In any realistic scenario, it also destroyed any chance of their ever working for Lumon again.
The show functionally ended with S1, the writers just don't know it. It could work to make a spin-off or anthology season set in the same world, but it would be about Lumon and not Mark, Helly, Irv, and Dylan. It wouldn't be Severance any more.
I didn't know of reshoots, I'll need to look into that.
