Seven was assimilated into the Federation Collective

[Garren]

I'm watching season 4 for the first time and I'm disturbed by Janeway's behavior with Seven of Nine just as I was with Tuvix. I'm not even sure why Seven of Nine was forced to stay on Voyager but even from the beginning, with Scorpion part 2, Janeway seems hellbent on converting Seven of Nine to a human despite the fact that Seven was raised as a borg and doesn't know any other way of life.

Janeway takes it so far as to force Seven to adopt a human name, digest food like a normal bipedal organic, all in the name of making Seven more like a model human but this is against Seven's will. Seven continually protests these changes.

To me, as I watch Seven's transformation, I'm more disturbed at Janeway's behavior because it's not different from the Borg's. She pretty much assimilates Seven into human society against Seven's wishes.

 

[erastus25]

Be careful...you're going to stir the rage of the Janeway lovers...

But, seriously, Janeway's often a morally reprehensible, or at least morally inconsistent, character. I agree that she did not handle the situation with 7 very well.

 

[teya]

Seven said it best, "Then you are no different than the Borg."

 

[Lord Manitou]

Voyager is a type of series where just about everything is handled with force and gusto. This is readily supplied with Mulgrew as Captian Janeway. It was her humanity that forced her to Seven's side and coerce her to be a human again. Janeway is the type of person guided by principles and sound beliefs. It was these human beliefs that taught Seven of Nine to be called just Seven and to treat the crew like in another collective. She chose Seven to be one of her pupils and from then-on nothing could dissuade her directives. Is something wrong with that?

 

[Garren]

Is something wrong with that?

There is if it's against your pupil's wishes, yeah.

Lord Manitou, that name just doesn't quite fit with our Science Fiction / Star Trek theme of rank. I want you to call yourself Lieutenant Manitou. No? Perhaps a compromise.. how about just Ensign Manitou? Sir Manitou? Why do you argue, I'm changing your name for your own good because it pleases me, Lord Manitou, you must be one of us! One of us!

 

[erastus25]

Is something wrong with that?

There is if it's against your pupil's wishes, yeah.

Lord Manitou, that name just doesn't quite fit with our Science Fiction / Star Trek theme of rank. I want you to call yourself Lieutenant Manitou. No? Perhaps a compromise.. how about just Ensign Manitou? Sir Manitou? Why do you argue, I'm changing your name for your own good because it pleases me, Lord Manitou, you must be one of us! One of us!

I'll admit...I lol'ed.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Two things about this:

- Janeway obviously could not allow a Borg drone to remain, unaltered, aboard the ship. That would be a security risk to an extreme degree. Not only in leaking information back to the Borg, but possibly attempting to assimilate Voyager's crew. Seven was under suspicion for doing either or both of those things, unless something was done about it, and quick. Janeway had the absolute right to do what she did - to save herself and the crew.

- Seven, in the end, was given a choice. Janeway could have kicked her off the ship and sent her back to the collective, but Seven chose to stay. In the end, Seven came to realize that Voyager was her "collective."

It's like what I said earlier about the jackass Michael Eddington comparing the Federation to the Borg. That is, of course, not true. The Borg forces people to join its collective without any choice; the Federation (Janeway included) has the absolute right to present its side - to make its case, as it were. But the choice is ultimately up to the individual.

So comparing Janeway to the Borg is a non-starter, really.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

I would disagree with that assessment. When Janeway met Seven she was not capable of making her own informed decisions. If a child is kidnapped and then when she's rescued she wants to return to her kidnapper because it's the only life she remembers, you don't send her back to her kidnapper, you try to deprogram her.

When Janeway met Seven she was physically an adult but an emotional seven year old. She needed the guidance of a mother figure which Janeway gave her, and there was no indication after The Raven she even wished to leave or that if she did wish to leave and pursue her own path in any way other than returning to the Borg Janeway would have stopped her.

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

Seven was not a child. She had the full knowledge and experience of the entire collective.

In any case, it's like I just said: Janeway acted to protect her ship and crew. That alone gave her the right to deal with Seven as necessary.

 

[Catarina]

I'm going to counter that...momentarily that is. I don't know if you caught the part in the brig Janeway thought she should see humanity before arbitrarily choosing Borg. Now, how she treated her in late season 4 I'd probably inclined to concur. It was looking parallel with BQ's motives.

 

[Catarina]

Meh, I'm going to counter my counter, lol. I am reflecting back and she took an almost mom role and made her choices for her and like any angry kid with limited foresight she later thanked Janeway once experiences were happening. So...although walking a fine line as the Borg queen Janeway was keeping to her intention to hope she'd experience humanity. True she was gambling on Seven to stay human and I would have been interested in seeing if Seven flipped."no I was right humanity sucks." :-) Would Janeway let her go? That would determine if she was no different than the Borg. (IMO)

 

[Melakon]

Spoiler: much later

As much as some fans dislike the episode, the real moment of truth comes in "Dark Frontier". Seven is willing to return to the Collective if the Queen will spare Voyager. She keeps this agenda hidden from Janeway, insisting she must go on an away mission. Janeway goes on a solo mission to rescue her, at the risk of her own life, leading Seven to make the ultimate decision of whether to go or stay.

 

[Garren]

- Seven, in the end, was given a choice.

Let's look at that. In the end, she was given a choice. That's like saying "well, after beating and brainwashing my imported domesticated slave, I gave them a choice. They could have chosen to leave." but the brain washing is already done. Stockholm syndrome has already set in.

Seven wasn't really given a choice and I don't remember a moment during Scorpion where Seven actually chose to stay on Voyager to be friends. She was sort of forced to stay and made a couple attempts to rejoin her collective.

I'm not saying Janeway didn't do what was necessary.

I'm asking, why didn't Janeway just destroy Seven or jettison her out of the airlock like the others when she attacked the crew? Why was it so necessary that Janeway try to convert this Borg to become a human, not knowing if she could undo the Borg process. She technically put the ship in more danger by keeping a dangerous entity on board.

I think Janeway's actions are disturbing for a starship captain who has a duty to get her crew back home in one piece.

 

[Catarina]

I see your point. Why this drone? Because she was within her grasp? If she didn't want to kill her she could have left her with communication equipment as seven suggested.

 

[HIjol]

Meh, I'm going to counter my counter, lol. I am reflecting back and she took an almost mom role and made her choices for her and like any angry kid with limited foresight she later thanked Janeway once experiences were happening. So...although walking a fine line as the Borg queen Janeway was keeping to her intention to hope she'd experience humanity. True she was gambling on Seven to stay human and I would have been interested in seeing if Seven flipped."no I was right humanity sucks." :-) Would Janeway let her go? That would determine if she was no different than the Borg. (IMO)

I will counter your counter with my counter, and raise you a sink and a cabinet!

My opinion is that, first, as mentioned above, it was an act of humanity (from Kate's perspective.) She couldn't not try to "save 7." But I also feel it had some tactical roots, at least at the front end. Knowing more about a drone, etc., etc. Also, it was "logical" as a plot/series device. The crew was already diverse as a meeting at Babel, and to add 7 just added to the mix and chemistry of the thing.

And, I want to congratulate all the previous posters on NOT bringing up 7's, well...ya' know, her, um, ah, "assets"...yes, those.

Well done!

 

[TEACAKE'S PLEATHER DOME]

Meh, I'm going to counter my counter, lol. I am reflecting back and she took an almost mom role and made her choices for her and like any angry kid with limited foresight she later thanked Janeway once experiences were happening. So...although walking a fine line as the Borg queen Janeway was keeping to her intention to hope she'd experience humanity. True she was gambling on Seven to stay human and I would have been interested in seeing if Seven flipped."no I was right humanity sucks." :-) Would Janeway let her go? That would determine if she was no different than the Borg. (IMO)

Yes that is exactly so, she was gambling on Seven to stay human and I think some of the crew saw it that way too. What if it failed, what if Seven fled back to the Borg and became a danger to them? What if she was a danger just wandering about the ship, it would be hard not to be initially disturbed knowing a Borg was on Voyager.

And yes, she would have let her go if Seven chose it.

 

[Guy Gardener]

And in a different case later on, Janeway would chose to pay for engine parts and a short cut with Seven, as if there were no rules about slavery in the Federation.

 

[JirinPanthosa]

Seven was not a child. She had the full knowledge and experience of the entire collective.

In any case, it's like I just said: Janeway acted to protect her ship and crew. That alone gave her the right to deal with Seven as necessary.

Emotionally she was very much a child. She didn't emotionally develop one bit between the time she was assimilated and the time she was freed. It's no different than if somebody fell into a coma when they were seven years old then miraculously woke up when they were 25. They'd have the body of an adult but the emotional development of a child.

Seven was not 'Assimilated' into the Federation any more than parents assimilate their children into their value system.

It is true that the initial decision to remove her Borg implants was self protective but after the initial risk had passed there was more security risk keeping her aboard at all than just leaving her somewhere.

- Seven, in the end, was given a choice.

Let's look at that. In the end, she was given a choice. That's like saying "well, after beating and brainwashing my imported domesticated slave, I gave them a choice. They could have chosen to leave." but the brain washing is already done. Stockholm syndrome has already set in.

Except it was the Borg who beat and brainwashed the imported domesticated slave. Extending your analogy even further, suppose the imported domesticated slave is later rescued. But due to the brain washing, she wishes to return to her masters. What do you do, do you just respect her wishes and return her to her masters, or do you teach her how to be a free individual and then give her the choice?

 

[Melakon]

It's similar to the situation in TNG: Suddenly Human, when the boy Jono was raised by the man who killed his family, and Picard tried to help the boy regain his humanity. But Jono decided to return to the man he considered his father rather than return to Earth and blood relatives who wanted him with them.

 

[Guy Gardener]

Children don't get to make those decisions for themselves.