Settling Issues In Combat

[iguana_tonante]

Sooo.... missed the part where I said this group of people will be revered and honored throughout the land?

A golden cage is still a cage. Pike knew it.

Why would you think of them as slaves? Where in my original post did I say that people will be forced to be a fighter?

The part where you said they were to be taken at a young age, trained exclusively for the purpose of combat, and kept away from politics, economics, culture and religion. Even if they could theoretically quit, what kind of life they could have outside of the circus with that kind of background? One choice is no choice. And no choice is slavery.

 

[Gov Kodos]

Sooo.... missed the part where I said this group of people will be revered and honored throughout the land?

A golden cage is still a cage. Pike knew it.

Why would you think of them as slaves? Where in my original post did I say that people will be forced to be a fighter?

The part where you said they were to be taken at a young age, trained exclusively for the purpose of combat, and kept away from politics, economics, culture and religion. Even if they could theoretically quit, what kind of life they could have outside of the circus with that kind of background? One choice is no choice. And no choice is slavery.

Gladiators, yeah, get those scruffy feral cats out of the Colosseum and put it back into working order.

 

[Mr Silver]

It would be voluntary of course, a career if you like, you fight a certain amount of fights each year for a period of maybe 5 years. You would be given perks such as Free Medical Care, a very large Salary and a Pension.

Where would the money come from, for all this, you say? 'Fight Tax'. A small figure, perhaps £10 a year from every working member of the public and a corporate fee of £10,000 (since corporations, naturally will be using this service constantly). Furthermore, Banking bonuses will be taxed by 25%.

 

[Roger Wilco]

I'm unclear on what purpose the actual combat serves in all this if you allow "champions". If you have to fight yourself it could at least be preventing people from filing frivolous claims, but if they can let someone else fight, they don't have to care.

Why not just flip a coin?

 

[Gov Kodos]

It would be voluntary of course, a career if you like, you fight a certain amount of fights each year for a period of maybe 5 years. You would be given perks such as Free Medical Care, a very large Salary and a Pension.

Where would the money come from, for all this, you say? 'Fight Tax'. A small figure, perhaps £10 a year from every working member of the public and a corporate fee of £10,000 (since corporations, naturally will be using this service constantly). Furthermore, Banking bonuses will be taxed by 25%.

Can we have James Caan doing the announcing? Jonathan! Jonathan!

 

[infinix]

The part where you said they were to be taken at a young age, trained exclusively for the purpose of combat, and kept away from politics, economics, culture and religion. Even if they could theoretically quit, what kind of life they could have outside of the circus with that kind of background? One choice is no choice. And no choice is slavery.

You assume too much. The word I used was CHOSEN, not taken. Where I come form, just because you have been chosen by a certain college does not mean you are absolutely bound to attend it.

Also, I said this group will be outside the influence of politics, economics, culture, and religion. Meaning that they can't be bribed or coerced or biased into throwing a fight. Otherwise, this system will not work.

Now, if you would, please stop putting word in my mouth (sort of) and actually make a suggestion on how you would make this ritualistic combat system work.

 

[iguana_tonante]

Also, I said this group will be outside the influence of politics, economics, culture, and religion. Meaning that they can't be bribed or coerced or biased into throwing a fight. Otherwise, this system will not work.

To keep the gladiators "outside" of the influence of society, you need to take away their freedom of thought, expression, association, and belief. Not to mention, the right to have a personal life. You would be creating an underclass. Which, as I surmise, is a very bad thing.

Now, if you would, please stop putting word in my mouth (sort of) and actually make a suggestion on how you would make this ritualistic combat system work.

To be clear, I don't think it would work. At all. But feel free to indulge in your blood fantasies, if you so wish.

 

[Wanderlust]

How bout a giant RTS simulation like C&C or Homeworld? ^^

 

[ITL]

Combat By Fish. It's the only fair way.

 

[iguana_tonante]

I lol'd.

 

[B.J.]

Can you imagine the Queen mounted on a Clydesdale, strolling up to Colonel Gaddafi?

Are you kidding? In one on one combat between QEII and Gaddafi, I'd say QEII would win every time. Dude has totally gone to seed, whereas I bet she could connect a serious right hook with her handbag and win by KO in the second round.

Why am I picturing a Monty Python sketch?

 

[infinix]

Also, I said this group will be outside the influence of politics, economics, culture, and religion. Meaning that they can't be bribed or coerced or biased into throwing a fight. Otherwise, this system will not work.

To keep the gladiators "outside" of the influence of society, you need to take away their freedom of thought, expression, association, and belief. Not to mention, the right to have a personal life. You would be creating an underclass. Which, as I surmise, is a very bad thing.

I think we need to make a differentiation between direct influence and indirect influence. I imagined direct influence such as a mayor or CEO coming to your house in the dead of night, handing you an envelop filled with cash, asking you to throw a fight tomorrow. That kind of influence.

Indirect influence, such as watching the news and developing an opinion, is not an issue here. It is natural to assume that those individuals with specific bias would not be allow to participate in specific combats. We choose jurors the same way, after all.

 

[iguana_tonante]

It is natural to assume that those individuals with specific bias would not be allow to participate in specific combats. We choose jurors the same way, after all.

I dunno: we have professional judges making the calls, not juries. (Assisted by lay judges selected at random from the population to ensure public supervision of the judges' work.)

Even with all the problems of the judiciary system, I still fail to see how this "trial by combat" would ensure justice or equanimity.

 

[FPAlpha]

The part where you said they were to be taken at a young age, trained exclusively for the purpose of combat, and kept away from politics, economics, culture and religion. Even if they could theoretically quit, what kind of life they could have outside of the circus with that kind of background? One choice is no choice. And no choice is slavery.

You assume too much. The word I used was CHOSEN, not taken. Where I come form, just because you have been chosen by a certain college does not mean you are absolutely bound to attend it.

Also, I said this group will be outside the influence of politics, economics, culture, and religion. Meaning that they can't be bribed or coerced or biased into throwing a fight. Otherwise, this system will not work.

Now, if you would, please stop putting word in my mouth (sort of) and actually make a suggestion on how you would make this ritualistic combat system work.

You are describing the Gladiators of ancient Rome with a small difference that's ultimately pointless.. what if the kid choses not to be chosen? Would someone let a very promising kid go just because it's got no interest to fight. And i'm not even starting to argue about setting a kids career part during an age where it's not capable of making that decision himself.

Gladiators were hugely popular in Rome.. they were the rockstars of their age. Men were fans, the women too (and they often had sex with the best of them) and they were afforded every luxury that was handy (at least the best and most famous ones) but in the end they were still slaves trained to fight, kill and die for the entertainment of others.

 

[infinix]

Even with all the problems of the judiciary system, I still fail to see how this "trial by combat" would ensure justice or equanimity.

I will leave it to Captain M, who started the thread, to defend why trial by combat is a good idea. I was simply suggesting a format under which trial by combat could happen.

You are describing the Gladiators of ancient Rome with a small difference that's ultimately pointless.. what if the kid choses not to be chosen? Would someone let a very promising kid go just because it's got no interest to fight. And i'm not even starting to argue about setting a kids career part during an age where it's not capable of making that decision himself.

Gladiators were hugely popular in Rome.. they were the rockstars of their age. Men were fans, the women too (and they often had sex with the best of them) and they were afforded every luxury that was handy (at least the best and most famous ones) but in the end they were still slaves trained to fight, kill and die for the entertainment of others.

First of all, I never suggested a fight to the death nor did I suggest this will be done for entertainment purposes.

Secondly, I again stress that no one is forced into this. Just because you were chosen to become a cabinet member by the president doesn't mean you are obligated to accept. Just because a child may be chosen doesn't mean the child is obligated to become a fighter.

Finally, and most importantly, most Roman gladiators are slaves to begin with. They didn't become slaves because they were chosen to be gladiators. These people would've been slaves anyway. Very different from what I am proposing, where everyone is free to begin with, and free to reject the offer, and free to leave.