News Seth MacFarlane’s The Orville

[Tim Thomason]

You might have had a point, if trying to change the sex of infants was a "transgender issue".

Maybe it's just a sci-fi show exploring alien cultures, and showing what kind of diversity, for good or for bad, there is out there?

Mercer did use the phrase "transgender operation" to describe Topa's planned sex change. Which was kind of an eyeroll moment for me. It wasn't a phrase the Moclans would've used, and I don't think 25th century humans would use either, but I guess he picked up from 21st century pop culture.

It doesn't really describe the situation at all, except for in the loosest possible sense.

 

[CardassianAssassin]

It's the reaction of every one around them, weighing in, and trying to dictate morality, is what is similar to the current climate.

I don't really see it. If anything, if I'd have to point to a real world issue that the show is commenting on, it would be the cultural clash between gender-egalitarian western societies, and countries like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia (or much of the Middle East to a lesser extent) where women don't exist in the public sphere.

But as I said, I don't see the show as being preachy or commenting on societal controversies. I just see a sci-fi show exploring a vast and diverse galaxy.

PS

Your use of the word "real" is unintentionally offensive.

Well, anyone offended can replace "real" with "biological" then.
My point was, that the procedure done on Bortus's baby and his mate, is a procedure done on a newborn and is likely so advanced that it (over time perhaps) turns them into a biological male.

You can't compare that with the kind of crude surgery done on adult transgender people today. Having a penis turned inside out and tucked inside you, doesn't turn a person into a biological female.

 

[Guy Gardener]

No, but you're not going to request that surgery unless you are metaphysically female.

Besides the more crude and painful and physically threatening the surgery is, the more sure about it you have to be before signing off on the surgery. If the baby is just shot with a ray beam until it's filled with Y chromosomes, and magically wibbly wobbly transforms (painlessly?) into a boy... It's low effort, no cost and no consequences, especially if the gender can be reversed again, and again just as effortlessly.

Imagine if this technology was weaponized?

 

[Mr. Adventure]

Or Riker being assigned unwillingly to prosecute Data in a different episode?

You're mapping minor, common Trek tropes. These were completely different stories.

Did something like that happen in this one?

I'm not saying it was a 100% copy and I get that the actual plot wasn't the same but it seemed to have a lot of parallels and played out in a similar way. I'm kind of surprised that I'm the only one who thinks that but that seems to be par for the course of late.

 

[Sophie74656]

I don't really see it. If anything, if I'd have to point to a real world issue that the show is commenting on, it would be the cultural clash between gender-egalitarian western societies, and countries like Afghanistan or Saudi Arabia (or much of the Middle East to a lesser extent) where women don't exist in the public sphere.

But as I said, I don't see the show as being preachy or commenting on societal controversies. I just see a sci-fi show exploring a vast and diverse galaxy.



Well, anyone offended can replace "real" with "biological" then.
My point was, that the procedure done on Bortus's baby and his mate, is a procedure done on a newborn and is likely so advanced that it (over time perhaps) turns them into a biological male.

You can't compare that with the kind of crude surgery done on adult transgender people today. Having a penis turned inside out and tucked inside you, doesn't turn a person into a biological female.

Nobody ever claimed that gender surgery will turn a male into a biological female. But it will give the appearance, allow them to have sex as a female, and to see themselves as a female. The surgery is not actually that "crude" I've seen before and after and the end result of male to female is quite good visually.

 

[Matthew Raymond]

Some people complaining about Episode 3 because of its socially significant subject matter here seem like people complaining to a McDonald's cashier after discovering that there's a piece of steak in their hamburger where their hamburger patty should be. Sure, you might not expect steak in your hamburger, and it may not be cooked perfectly how you like it, but it's STEAK!

There was definitely that element too, yes. But the Maclans saw being a girl as being the "wrong" gender so they impose sex change surgery to correct it. Today, we have individuals who see their gender as "wrong" because it does not match their identity and they get sex change operations to correct it. So I interpreted the episode as being a metaphor for trangender issues, albeit with some important key differences.

I think this would be a more valid take on the episode if it weren't for the fact that Klyden's transgender state doesn't change Bortus' feelings for him. Klyden being transgender is never treated as a bad thing in the episode. What's treated as bad is that Klyden and others born female never had a choice. That's anti-conformist, not anti-transgender.

 

[CardassianAssassin]

Nobody ever claimed that gender surgery will turn a male into a biological female.

Exactly. My point was that in The Orville, the surgery will do exactly that. Turn the baby into a biological male.

Which is why I disagree with the argument that it's some sort of allegory to transgender issues today.

 

[CardassianAssassin]

I think this would be a more valid take on the episode if it weren't for the fact that Klyden's transgender state doesn't change Bortus' feelings for him.

Except Klyden isn't transgender. He received a surgery that turned him into a biological male.

 

[Guy Gardener]

You do have a point.

Klyden never decided that being female was wrong for him, and now after the fact, he's happy as a male.

 

[Cinema Geekly]

I thought it was their best episode they've aired thus far.

I was thinking about everything from transgender issues to designer babies, parental rights, and sexism.

I thought they did a really good job. On top of that I found adorable humor in Bortus coming to a realization about the fate/unknowable destiny of his child by watching Rudolph resulting in a very touching scene at the end.

Nearly died laughing at the Beyonce joke as well.

 

[Bad Thoughts]

Exactly. My point was that in The Orville, the surgery will do exactly that. Turn the baby into a biological male.

Which is why I disagree with the argument that it's some sort of allegory to transgender issues today.

Oh, but it is. It is arguing for empowering the individual to make decisions about transitioning for her/himself,and it is arguing against cultural concepts and social pressure being used to impose a determinative gender on the individual.

 

[dahj]

If it lasts long enough, should Seth grow a beard?

Alara already grew her eyebrows, so that's sorted.

 

[Romulan_spy]

It is interesting to see how people have such different views of what the episode was trying to say. In that regard, the episode definitely succeeds at making people think which is a good thing.

 

[CorporalCaptain]

So, "About a Girl." (SPOILERS)

I think a major point of the episode was that the Orville crew will fight for what they think is right, regardless of whether they are up to the task or successful. The Moclans' reaction to learning that their greatest writer was a woman felt authentic to me, in its having no impact on their conservative bias despite their having been surprised and shocked at the moment of revelation.

If a major point of the episode was to make me feel sad and hurt, and to give some impression of what it might be like to be a victim of social conventions, then it was completely successful in that. In all likelihood, the infant's fate was sealed as soon as Bortus requested tribunal. The Moclans even implicitly threatened to use violence against the protagonists, with their display against the shuttle on arrival, and there's no reason to expect that any attempt to achieve a different outcome with force or diplomacy would have succeeded.

This wasn't "Code of Honor" level of awful. I didn't even find it awful, but it was really sad in its outcome.

---

By the way, is anyone else experiencing sound issues with Orville episodes? My local station has had audio glitches in both of the last two episodes.

 

[Borgminister]

Rudolph to demonstrate diversity? Went kind of flat for me. This show is potentially wonderful, but too schizophrenic as yet, which is not unusual for a brand new show.

 

[Romulan_spy]

I think a major point of the episode was that the Orville crew will fight for what they think is right, regardless of whether they are up to the task or successful.

Yeah, I liked that. Mercer did not hesitate to get very firm with Bortus and make it clear that he would never allow a procedure that he found morally objectionable. It was great to see Mercer showing some real command presence and strength. I was not sure if McFarlane had the acting chops to be a strong captain figure but he proved me wrong. And the crew was united in doing the right thing and helping Bortus when he changed his mind.

This bodes well for when they do the inevitable prime directive episode. Seth McFarlane has even stated that the show does not have a prime directive as such. So my guess is that The Orville will deal with the prime directive concept very differently than TNG did. Instead of the crew wringing their hands over not being able to help a planet, we will see a crew motivated to do the right thing from the get-go. A welcome change if you ask me.

 

[Cyrus]

I did think the manner in which Kelly presented her case was absurd ;
'Here's a female of a different species , shes strong, therefore you should change your culture '
'Here's a male of a different species , hes stupid, therefore you should change your culture

yeah that part didn't work for me. Also the stupidity of male was proved by him not being good in trivia questions, kind of a lame IQ test.

 

[Starfury]

yeah that part didn't work for me. Also the stupidity of male was proved by him not being good in trivia questions, kind of a lame IQ test.

That sequence would have worked better if Mercer had searched for the woman right away, telling Kelly just to buy them some time in court, no matter how. But the show is new, I can give them some slack for these things. The Orville has heart, that's all that counts

 

[Mudd]

Perhaps, but the episode was clearly making an analogy for transgender issues today.

I don't think so.

 

[mos6507]

Except Klyden isn't transgender. He received a surgery that turned him into a biological male.

Maybe a closer analog would be this:

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2004/06/the_cutting_edge.html