News Seth MacFarlane’s The Orville
- Thread starter Kai "the spy"
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In (airdate) episode two, Bortus laid the egg, after one or both of them fertilized the egg... And after the laying there could be some complex parenting with the unborn child like with penguins (the men sit) or kangaroos (the lady gives birth in the boys pouch, and then he carries it for a few months) which is beside the point that the egg was inside Bortus before he laid it, ergo pregnant.
The absolute worst, is if Next week, we meet Klyden, Bortus' mate, for the fist time as he arrives on the ship and moves in with Bortus, even if they have been together for 6 years.
The absolute worst, is if Next week, we meet Klyden, Bortus' mate, for the fist time as he arrives on the ship and moves in with Bortus, even if they have been together for 6 years.
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"About a girl" was a bit of a miss for me.
It was definitely a "TNG style preachy" episode. It tried to put a different spin on the moral question of transgenderism. Instead of simply dealing with the question of whether transgenderism is good or bad, it introduced the concept of a society that is so prejudiced against women that it literally mandates sex change operations on infants. That could have been a good concept and the episode started off strong. However, it was a bit clumsy in its attempt because it tried to examine too many issues at once. We got the question of should you forcefully perform a surgical procedure on a child against their will. . We also got feminist arguments like "women are just as strong and smart as men". Then, we got issues of trangenderism like the reveal that some of the Maclans are transgender. So the episode tried to tackle at least 3 big questions at once.
Also, morality plays such as this one can be very tricky because if the episode takes a side in the debate, it will undoubtedly upset or even offend some viewers who don't agree. This is especially problematic when tackling controversial social issues such as homosexuality or transgenderism because these are very hot button topics that can easily anger people who have strongly held opinions on the subject. This episode of the orville may offend some people because at times, it kinda presented transgenderism in a bad light by presenting transgenderism as a "cure" against being one particular gender and the crew taking an anti-transgender stance. Now, granted the episode was dealing with the issue of forced sex change operation which is very different but I could see how transgender advocates might read between the lines and take offense at the episode. It was particularly interesting when the female maclan came forth at the end of the trial and talked about how she is proud of who she is. The episode flipped conventional tropes on its head. One might expect the character to be a transgender and give a speech about how she is proud of her transgender. But in this episode, she was a naturally born female proudly boasting that she is not transgender. Then at the end, the episode showed the parents vowing to love their transgender child so it did try to present things in a positive light even though the crew was really down on failing to change the society.
In terms of the humor, there were some good moments but there were some misses as well. My favorite comedic moment was the wild wild west scene in the holodeck. It felt like a scene from blazing saddles. The image of the macho cowboy villain wanting to do a dance off was hilarious. I actually wish the scene had continued longer. It felt like they cut short the joke just as we were getting to the punch line. The worst comedic moment was the blob asking the doctor for a date and then extending a part of the blog in a phallic shape. That was rather cringe worthy. When dealing with a serious topic like forced sex change operations, the humor feels inappropriate and breaks the tone of the episode. Humor can be good but should be reserved for more fun episodes where the tone fits better.
Conclusion: I think The Orville should stay away from this type of episode. They add unnecessary controversy that will divide the audience. The previous episode, "Command Performance" is an example of the type of episode that the show should stick with: fun adventure that deals with scifi concepts but not controversial moral questions, mixed with some clever resolutions, humor and a happy ending.
It was definitely a "TNG style preachy" episode. It tried to put a different spin on the moral question of transgenderism. Instead of simply dealing with the question of whether transgenderism is good or bad, it introduced the concept of a society that is so prejudiced against women that it literally mandates sex change operations on infants. That could have been a good concept and the episode started off strong. However, it was a bit clumsy in its attempt because it tried to examine too many issues at once. We got the question of should you forcefully perform a surgical procedure on a child against their will. . We also got feminist arguments like "women are just as strong and smart as men". Then, we got issues of trangenderism like the reveal that some of the Maclans are transgender. So the episode tried to tackle at least 3 big questions at once.
Also, morality plays such as this one can be very tricky because if the episode takes a side in the debate, it will undoubtedly upset or even offend some viewers who don't agree. This is especially problematic when tackling controversial social issues such as homosexuality or transgenderism because these are very hot button topics that can easily anger people who have strongly held opinions on the subject. This episode of the orville may offend some people because at times, it kinda presented transgenderism in a bad light by presenting transgenderism as a "cure" against being one particular gender and the crew taking an anti-transgender stance. Now, granted the episode was dealing with the issue of forced sex change operation which is very different but I could see how transgender advocates might read between the lines and take offense at the episode. It was particularly interesting when the female maclan came forth at the end of the trial and talked about how she is proud of who she is. The episode flipped conventional tropes on its head. One might expect the character to be a transgender and give a speech about how she is proud of her transgender. But in this episode, she was a naturally born female proudly boasting that she is not transgender. Then at the end, the episode showed the parents vowing to love their transgender child so it did try to present things in a positive light even though the crew was really down on failing to change the society.
In terms of the humor, there were some good moments but there were some misses as well. My favorite comedic moment was the wild wild west scene in the holodeck. It felt like a scene from blazing saddles. The image of the macho cowboy villain wanting to do a dance off was hilarious. I actually wish the scene had continued longer. It felt like they cut short the joke just as we were getting to the punch line. The worst comedic moment was the blob asking the doctor for a date and then extending a part of the blog in a phallic shape. That was rather cringe worthy. When dealing with a serious topic like forced sex change operations, the humor feels inappropriate and breaks the tone of the episode. Humor can be good but should be reserved for more fun episodes where the tone fits better.
Conclusion: I think The Orville should stay away from this type of episode. They add unnecessary controversy that will divide the audience. The previous episode, "Command Performance" is an example of the type of episode that the show should stick with: fun adventure that deals with scifi concepts but not controversial moral questions, mixed with some clever resolutions, humor and a happy ending.
I thought this one was an interesting change of pace from the last two episodes. The whole time I was seeing parallels with The Outcast, maybe because it was on TV just recently. I enjoyed the first two episodes but I think it's good for the series to have some episodes that have a more serious tone.
I did think the manner in which Kelly presented her case was absurd ;
'Here's a female of a different species , shes strong, therefore you should change your culture '
'Here's a male of a different species , hes stupid, therefore you should change your culture '
I was also a bit disappointed that we really didn't learn the how or the why the Moclan culture evolved to their current state, but with any luck we have many seasons ahead of us and that can be addressed in later stories.
I nice bonus was seeing Finn have a larger role, I loved that actress in DS9 so its great to see her again. I think she's a strong actress and I like her as the Doctor.
I did think the manner in which Kelly presented her case was absurd ;
'Here's a female of a different species , shes strong, therefore you should change your culture '
'Here's a male of a different species , hes stupid, therefore you should change your culture '
I was also a bit disappointed that we really didn't learn the how or the why the Moclan culture evolved to their current state, but with any luck we have many seasons ahead of us and that can be addressed in later stories.
I nice bonus was seeing Finn have a larger role, I loved that actress in DS9 so its great to see her again. I think she's a strong actress and I like her as the Doctor.
Looks like next week's episode will go back to being a fun adventure type episode:
The episode was alright. Loved the Mexican dance off scene. Reminded me of 3 Amigos. Also loved how it was the Christmas special that made Bortus change his mind.
This episode did seem more serious than comedy though. It almost seemed like this was written for Star Trek
iscovery, but rejected so Seth took it and ran with it.
This episode did seem more serious than comedy though. It almost seemed like this was written for Star Trek
iscovery, but rejected so Seth took it and ran with it.
I have to agree with a lot of this. We didn't get enough build-up of Moclan culture in order to give the conflicts real impact. That's why the trial section feel flat, in my opinion.
The episode should have been aiming for something more like Half a Life, using more established character and relying more on sentimentality. Thankfully, the episode ended with Bortus and Clyden, which helped to establish the maudlin tone.
I suspect that this is not the last of this story.
I should stop reading until I see the episode....
WAT?!? There weren't any transgender people-eh-Maclans in the episode.
The writer/female Maclan was born a women and lived her life as a woman. As for Bordis's mate and the baby, we can assume that their medical technology is so advanced, that a baby given the surgery, will indeed turn into a real man, perhaps even at the genetically level.
That is completely different from the rather crude surgeries that are done on transgender adults on earth today.
Personally I loathe being preached to, but I think this episode was rather well done and showed both sides of the issue.
Meh, it sounds like you're referring to a particular demographic that likes to use words like "problematic" and often act like they thrive on being offended. You can't really please people like that, they'll always find something to clutch their pearls over.
Perhaps, but the episode was clearly making an analogy for transgender issues today.
I actually quite enjoyed this one. Maybe the issue regarding Bortus and Klyden's child could have used a bit more work, but I've seen similar issues handled far worse, in both other Star Trek shows and other MacFarlane shows. Still, I like they didn't really go with the "happy" ending and that despite this being something that could ruin a relationship, Bortus and Klyden are apparently trying to work through it.
The comedy is where the episode really shines, the Mexican bandito dance off on the holodeck is one of the best holodeck moments ever, and Bortus drawing inspiration from watching Rudolph is as awesome as it is hilarious.
The character interactions continue to be top-notch, with highlights being Gordon and John watching Rudolph with Bortus. "Dude just left his baby with two drunk guys." "Reminds me of my own dad." The boxing scene between Bortus and Alara was also a really good scene. Indeed, I think Alara is becoming one of my favourites on this show, at least she seems to be getting some of the best material in every episode.
Also, in the obscure Trek references department, the room filled with replicators where the crew go to tto get things (in this case, Klyden's clothes shopping) is very similar to a similar room seen on the Enterprise in TNG Data's Day. The scene even copies two background characters replicating a vase and walking off.
The comedy is where the episode really shines, the Mexican bandito dance off on the holodeck is one of the best holodeck moments ever, and Bortus drawing inspiration from watching Rudolph is as awesome as it is hilarious.
The character interactions continue to be top-notch, with highlights being Gordon and John watching Rudolph with Bortus. "Dude just left his baby with two drunk guys." "Reminds me of my own dad." The boxing scene between Bortus and Alara was also a really good scene. Indeed, I think Alara is becoming one of my favourites on this show, at least she seems to be getting some of the best material in every episode.
Also, in the obscure Trek references department, the room filled with replicators where the crew go to tto get things (in this case, Klyden's clothes shopping) is very similar to a similar room seen on the Enterprise in TNG Data's Day. The scene even copies two background characters replicating a vase and walking off.
You might have had a point, if trying to change the sex of infants was a "transgender issue".
Maybe it's just a sci-fi show exploring alien cultures, and showing what kind of diversity, for good or for bad, there is out there?
It's the reaction of every one around them, weighing in, and trying to dictate morality, is what is similar to the current climate.
PS
Your use of the word "real" is unintentionally offensive.
PS
Your use of the word "real" is unintentionally offensive.
That's totally backwards. The metaphor was with respect to humans born with ambiguous gender characteristics, and the fact that doctors often "correct" those traits surgically to make the baby confirm to a particular gender norm shortly after birth. There have even been cases where doctors have done so without the consent of the parents. I remember seeing a news story on TV where the doctor talked a family into an exploratory surgery for the health of their non-infant child and then used it as a cover to remove one set of genitals in the operating room.
In such a metaphor, the crew, in this case, is actually PRO-transgender, as they're opposing the surgery. And while may people feel one should have the right to gender reassignment to make their body reflect the gender they identify with, few would argue doing that for newborn infants that can't articulate what they want or even understand what's going on.
I'm actually glad they had the guts to go through with that ending. It would have been far too easy to let them win the case, but it would have been a cheap and meaningless ending if they did that. With the current ending, you'll be reminded every time you see their child of what that child has lost.
Agreed. I've said earlier in this thread that The Orville can mine lots of humor from things like whacky space phenomenon and making fun of other common SF tropes. Trying to marry humor with tough social issues like this is difficult at best.
There was definitely that element too, yes. But the Maclans saw being a girl as being the "wrong" gender so they impose sex change surgery to correct it. Today, we have individuals who see their gender as "wrong" because it does not match their identity and they get sex change operations to correct it. So I interpreted the episode as being a metaphor for trangender issues, albeit with some important key differences.