SERIOUS pet peeve about TNG

[Timo]

And in several cases in TOS and early TNG, shields do pop up automatically and red alert is sounded by the computer, not by the commanding officer.

However, it would be easy to see how the computer, out of desire to protect the crew, instead caused its demise by raising the shields when combat was imminent but not inevitable. Probably Starfleet, too, believes that its personnel should protect their employer by their lives if necessary, and not indulge in self-defense when that goes against the employer's interests.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[MacLeod]

The Hull itself also probably protects the crew somewaht from radiation.

 

[CoveTom]

Also keep in mind that Roddenberry was a Buddist and much of the philosophy you will see practiced in TNG and TOS is based on the teaching of that religion and it's idea of non-aggression.

OT, but where did you get the idea that Roddenberry was a Buddhist? If I'm not mistaken, he was married in a Buddhist ceremony, or some variant thereof. But beyond that, it's been pretty well established that he was an atheist and a secular humanist, and was rather disdainful of all religion in general, not just Christianity or Western religions.

 

[jentrimmers]

Also keep in mind that Roddenberry was a Buddist and much of the philosophy you will see practiced in TNG and TOS sci-fi is based on the teaching of that religion and it's idea of non-aggression.

OT, but where did you get the idea that Roddenberry was a Buddhist? If I'm not mistaken, he was married in a Buddhist ceremony, or some variant thereof. But beyond that, it's been pretty well established that he was an atheist and a secular humanist, and was rather disdainful of all religion in general, not just Christianity or Western religions.

But Buddhism is not a religion per say. It's more an education rather than a religion. He may not have been a buddhist per say, but certainly has some inclination towards its philosophy.

Here, from the book of Jennifer E. Porter, Darcee L. McLaren:
...Roddenberry's apparent sympathy for Japanese Buddhism may help to explain the Zen-like atmosphere of Vulcan culture which, like Zen, is presented as very...

 

[Sean Aaron]

Zen might be more of a philosophy with foundations in Buddhism, but Buddhism definitely fits the definition of a religion.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I just watched "The Wounded" and Picard mentioned one of his dealings with the Cardassians by saying he lowered his shields as "good faith" and they blew out his impulse engines and weapons in a split second and he had to go to warp to escape... Like come on man why???????

I would have shot them, too. First, they were fighting a war. Second, how stupid can you get. Third, good faith? Come on, I don't want to quote Weyoun all the time, but I would love to say "Please tell me you're not that naive" to Picard.

Maybe I'm just cynical, but that just seems stupid and blows my mind about this series. It makes humans look like morons.

It does. They are. Remember that brain-invading parasite thingie? Picard gets warned, a ship is blown up over it, everyone's going ahh, teh conspiracy, and what does he do? Run right into the arms of the leaders and ask "uh, are you plotting to take over the Federation?" How thick can you get? I mean, is he for real?

And that man commands Starfleet's flag ship. I wonder how they got to be an interstellar power at all, being clueless like this.

 

[Gary7]

^ You've apparently overlooked the context. The Enterprise was sent on a mission of truce with the Cardassians. It wasn't a combat situation, at least initially.

The episode you're talking about with regards to the Federation infiltration was "Conspiracy", from the first season. The key was that Picard didn't want to let on that they suspected anything, playing it as "act natural", up until the very end. There wasn't an opportunity to gather up a strike force with anyone else--the Enterprise was alone on this. So there wasn't any kind of head-on way to deal with this. Stealth was the only way.

EDIT: typo -- changed "Contagion" to "Conspiracy"

 

[Timo]

^ You've apparently overlooked the context. The Enterprise was sent on a mission of truce with the Cardassians. It wasn't a combat situation, at least initially.

And, probably, not later on, either.

When you send a negotiation party with a white flag, you don't send it over in an armored recce vehicle with a 25 mm Bushmaster pointed at the opposite side. You send it over in an open-top jeep, with the negotiators going the last stretch on foot. And if the encounter goes sour, it's not the task of the armored vehicle or the jeep to take on the enemy. It's the task of the armies that were held at bay by the white flag.

The episode you're talking about with regards to the Federation infiltration was "Contagion", from the first season.

Just to nitpick, it was "Conspiracy". It's not too far off, though...

In the second-season episode "Contagion", Picard learned of a potential Romulan ploy to acquire decisive supertech. From there on, it becomes pretty similar: the E-D gets alerted by Picard's old friend who soon dies, our heroes are alone on this, must act quickly without letting others know, must infiltrate the Romulan Neutral Zone with stealth, yadda yadda.

It's apparently standard starship skipper fare to be alone on the raw edge of both hair-raising self-sacrificial combat for the king and the country, and hair-raising self-sacrificial diplomacy for same. (No wonder Picard excels!)

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Keith1701]

Kind of random.. but why in so many episodes is the Enterprise-D just moseying along through space with their shields down?

"Keep the man shields off line, we don't want to seem like a threat." -- How is defending yourself from basic interstellar crap being a threat? Radiation exists out there... The worst is encountering an unknown vessel with your shields down like they did in so many first contacts... Nothing is stopping them from blowing you to bits... Yes, you can sense if their weapons are charging, but what if they power up undetected or faster than you can bring your shields online?

I just watched "The Wounded" and Picard mentioned one of his dealings with the Cardassians by saying he lowered his shields as "good faith" and they blew out his impulse engines and weapons in a split second and he had to go to warp to escape... Like come on man why???????

Maybe I'm just cynical, but that just seems stupid and blows my mind about this series. It makes humans look like morons.

I agree, it's like taking your car on the road with only three wheels on the ground.

 

[matthunter]

You're also overlooking the fact that running with a system active all the time puts extra stress on the tech. Ships aren't designed to be running at high warp for prolonged periods either - the warp coils need maintenance and presumably the same thing applies to the shield emitters.

Consider how annoying it is when a lightbulb blows out when it's dark. The fact that you left it on during broad daylight and thus only have yourself to blame is another matter - the fact is you're stumbling around in the dark trying to find a flashlight. Now imagine the shields blew out in the middle of a firefight with a Romulan cruiser, because you stressed the systems running around with the shields on all the time - how much more pissed would you be?

 

[Vanyel]

You're also overlooking the fact that running with a system active all the time puts extra stress on the tech. Ships aren't designed to be running at high warp for prolonged periods either - the warp coils need maintenance and presumably the same thing applies to the shield emitters.

Consider how annoying it is when a lightbulb blows out when it's dark. The fact that you left it on during broad daylight and thus only have yourself to blame is another matter - the fact is you're stumbling around in the dark trying to find a flashlight. Now imagine the shields blew out in the middle of a firefight with a Romulan cruiser, because you stressed the systems running around with the shields on all the time - how much more pissed would you be?

Great answer.

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I just watched Conspiracy, and the way Picard behaved was downright ridiculous. Walking right up to Starfleet Command after hundreds of people died so he'd be careful is the stupidest rookie move one could pull. And when he was in the building with those zombies, everyone knew that he knew. They left him alone for a moment, but he only thought about going back to the ship once he was surrounded.

In that episode, Picard held the stupid ball.

 

[Timo]

Oh, I dunno. It was the conspirators who were the obvious underdogs here. Our heroes knew that only a person infected by one of those bug creatures would be compromised; the sheer logistics of the situation, plus the evidence of all the earlier acts of harm against the UFP, dictated that there would very few conspirators on Earth, and that a fight against them would erupt at exposure, a fight a billion Earthmen couldn't lose.

Everything about the plot seemed to confirm this. The conspirators were trying to take over Starfleet by infiltrating the HQ on a quiet weekend, in a culmination of a complex campaign of preparations that was intended to open a path to the heart of the Federation. Everything they did was absolutely time-critical. A delay of a day, such as the one created by Picard and Riker gunning down the people at the HQ, would cost them everything - as evidenced by the Remmick creature sending a frantic "Abort! Abort!" signal to the invaders.

I'm not sure what Picard ought to have done differently. Going down there allayed the fears of the conspirators, as the one party they knew was in on their doings was now apparently rendered harmless.

OTOH, scouting around a bit was always helpful. The conspiracy was over in any case, as the E-D could at any time tell Starfleet to close the carefully opened invasion path again; all that remained to be done was storming SF HQ, something the ship's security could easily do, and hopefully finding some facts along the way so that the rest of the conspiracy could be uprooted. Picard didn't find anything much, but it was worth a try.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CommanderRaytas]

I was under the impression that Picard didn't give the whole thing all that much thought and figured, "oh well, can't hurt to ask 'em, right?"

I also think you put more thought into this than he did.

 

[Timo]

Isn't "thought-inspiring" supposed to be a positive description of an episode?

Timo Saloniemi

 

[CommanderRaytas]

It is, you're right about that.

 

[Greystone_06]

It is a diplomatic statement, nothing more. 'Here we are, we come in peace and trust you do too.'