SERIOUS pet peeve about TNG

[Sisko4Life]

Kind of random.. but why in so many episodes is the Enterprise-D just moseying along through space with their shields down?

"Keep the man shields off line, we don't want to seem like a threat." -- How is defending yourself from basic interstellar crap being a threat? Radiation exists out there... The worst is encountering an unknown vessel with your shields down like they did in so many first contacts... Nothing is stopping them from blowing you to bits... Yes, you can sense if their weapons are charging, but what if they power up undetected or faster than you can bring your shields online?

I just watched "The Wounded" and Picard mentioned one of his dealings with the Cardassians by saying he lowered his shields as "good faith" and they blew out his impulse engines and weapons in a split second and he had to go to warp to escape... Like come on man why???????

Maybe I'm just cynical, but that just seems stupid and blows my mind about this series. It makes humans look like morons.

 

[Mr_Homn]

Kind of random.. but why in so many episodes is the Enterprise-D just moseying along through space with their shields down?

"Keep the man shields off line, we don't want to seem like a threat." -- How is defending yourself from basic interstellar crap being a threat? Radiation exists out there... The worst is encountering an unknown vessel with your shields down like they did in so many first contacts... Nothing is stopping them from blowing you to bits... Yes, you can sense if their weapons are charging, but what if they power up undetected or faster than you can bring your shields online?

I'm pretty sure they have some other minor screens or something on at all times that protects them from "interstellar crap" and radiation, etc.

 

[Gary7]

I do agree that it does seem a bit peculiar... after all, the only real antagonistic move is to power up phasers or the photon torpedo launcher. And certainly ships should be able to scan and detect weapons preparation. But apparently shields raised is also treated as a non-diplomatic move. Having them down is a show of good faith. And in most circumstances, it works. Sometimes it doesn't...

And I would expect that the Enterprise would have the questionable ship on intense scan, whereby they would raise shields at the slightest moment of weapons charging.

So... I wouldn't make it a serious pet peeve. Don't waste your time and let such a minor point ruin your Star Trek experience.

I'm pretty sure they have some other minor screens or something on at all times that protects them from "interstellar crap" and radiation, etc.

That's what the deflector dish is for. It is kind of like a reverse tractor, pushing interstellar debris out of the path of the ship.

 

[Mr_Homn]

It's worth mentioning that Kirk was who practiced this policy first. It's not unique to TNG. Off the top of my head, Kirk does it in Wrath of Khan, and it ends up biting him in the butt. I guess you could rationalize that he did it because it was a federation ship he was encountering, but something was obviously wrong when they wouldn't respond and lied about their whatever being burned out as an excuse via voice message.

He also didn't even raise the shields after the Reliant raised their own shields. he waited until they locked on, which was pretty stupid. But it's a minor tidbit in an otherwise awesome movie.

I'd bet that Kirk did it at some other point too, but I'll leave that to the true experts.

 

[Vanyel]

The main deflector, moves crap out of the way. Anything too big to be pushed out of the way the sensors would see with plenty of time to manually input a course correction.

In The Outrageous Okona, it was mentioned that lasers couldn't penetrate navigational shields. I would think these types are always up to keep out radiation. If needed, again sensor see far out enough that any intense radiation bursts can be avoided.

 

[RAMA]

Kind of random.. but why in so many episodes is the Enterprise-D just moseying along through space with their shields down?

"Keep the man shields off line, we don't want to seem like a threat." -- How is defending yourself from basic interstellar crap being a threat? Radiation exists out there... The worst is encountering an unknown vessel with your shields down like they did in so many first contacts... Nothing is stopping them from blowing you to bits... Yes, you can sense if their weapons are charging, but what if they power up undetected or faster than you can bring your shields online?

I just watched "The Wounded" and Picard mentioned one of his dealings with the Cardassians by saying he lowered his shields as "good faith" and they blew out his impulse engines and weapons in a split second and he had to go to warp to escape... Like come on man why???????

Maybe I'm just cynical, but that just seems stupid and blows my mind about this series. It makes humans look like morons.

You know most ships of exploration in the past did not have any weapons load at all or very minor ones. This is the same kind of idea as approaching every possible first contact as a threat, and arming weapons and raising shields every time seems highly militant to me...it would also be taken as a sign of hostility by both violent and non-violent aliens....so not a real good idea. I'd rate any species who practiced the arm first ask questions later policy to be morons.

As for radiation and debris, that's what the navigational deflector is for.

EDIT: Although we see the crew manually raise shields mostly, in reality, the reaction time would be almost nil, so much like modern cruisers on hostile AA duty, the shields (like modern AA batteries) would be set to automatic, otherwise there would be little time to react to oncoming missles and aircraft...BUT only in response to active threat!

RAMA

 

[Destructor]

One reason might be that shields drain power that could be given over to other tasks, and considering that the Enterprise spent the vast majority of it's time in non-combat situations, having them up all the time would be woefully cost ineffective. It's like asking why we don't keep our military at Defcon 1 *all* the time on the off chance that there's an attack.

Secondly, shields interfere with transporters, shuttles, and presumably affect other systems. Given that the D was primarily a scientific exploration vessel, it doesn't make sense to prioritize shields over these other systems. It's like asking why an oceangoing research vessel doesn't have a couple of cannons on it.

 

[Anji]

I just watched "The Wounded" and Picard mentioned one of his dealings with the Cardassians by saying he lowered his shields as "good faith" and they blew out his impulse engines and weapons in a split second and he had to go to warp to escape... Like come on man why???????

The best way I can describe it is it is a different way of thinking. You can spend your life believing everyone is out to get you so walk around angry and on the defense or you can just remain calm and go about your business and whatever happens you feel confident you can deal with it.

See, there is a philosophy that aggression only breeds more aggression. And if any of you out there work in Customer Service you know the only way to calm down a person who is aggressive is not to present an aggressive front yourself. If you are calm, most of the time the person will follow your lead and calm down with you.

Also keep in mind that Roddenberry was a Buddist and much of the philosophy you will see practiced in TNG and TOS is based on the teaching of that religion and it's idea of non-aggression.

I hope that helps, young grasshopper.

 

[RAMA]

I just watched "The Wounded" and Picard mentioned one of his dealings with the Cardassians by saying he lowered his shields as "good faith" and they blew out his impulse engines and weapons in a split second and he had to go to warp to escape... Like come on man why???????

The best way I can describe it is it is a different way of thinking. You can spend your life believing everyone is out to get you so walk around angry and on the defense or you can just remain calm and go about your business and whatever happens you feel confident you can deal with it.

See, there is a philosophy that aggression only breeds more aggression. And if any of you out there work in Customer Service you know the only way to calm down a person who is aggressive is not to present an aggressive front yourself. If you are calm, most of the time the person will follow your lead and calm down with you.

Also keep in mind that Roddenberry was a Buddist and much of the philosophy you will see practiced in TNG and TOS is based on the teaching of that religion and it's idea of non-aggression.

I hope that helps, young grasshopper.

 

[Sisko4Life]

That's understandable, but we aren't talking about going around in red alert with torpedoes loaded and phasers charged. Just shields up. You never know whats out there...

I mean I'm not the captain, but I personally would probably keep my shields raised at all times at least out on the frontier when I'm not deep in Federation space...

It does not really take away from the show or anything, its just sometimes the idealism gets a little unrealistic.. I see that more as like leaving your house / apartment with it unlocked.. Unless someone sees you leave, chances are no one will ever enter. But you still just have that extra comfort knowing your base is secure. In that same analogy, that would be like meeting this person outside your apartment, them seeing you not lock it, then walking away. You really would have to trust that person.. and in a situation like that, it doesn't sound as militant...

Of course, on the flipside, if say your in a familiar neighborhood like a friends together dorm, your more comfortable with leaving your things unlocked

 

[RAMA]

That's understandable, but we aren't talking about going around in red alert with torpedoes loaded and phasers charged. Just shields up. You never know whats out there...

I mean I'm not the captain, but I personally would probably keep my shields raised at all times at least out on the frontier when I'm not deep in Federation space...

It does not really take away from the show or anything, its just sometimes the idealism gets a little unrealistic.. I see that more as like leaving your house / apartment with it unlocked.. Unless someone sees you leave, chances are no one will ever enter. But you still just have that extra comfort knowing your base is secure. In that same analogy, that would be like meeting this person outside your apartment, them seeing you not lock it, then walking away. You really would have to trust that person.. and in a situation like that, it doesn't sound as militant...

Of course, on the flipside, if say your in a familiar neighborhood like a friends together dorm, your more comfortable with leaving your things unlocked

Ok so think for a second, you are going to a business meeting in China...you have your personal shield up...no one else does....

You are on an archeaological expedition to India, you have your personal shield up....

RAMA

 

[Timo]

As for the treknological side...

Just shields up.

But is it "just"? For some reason, the default mode for every starship, including those built solely for combat, is to have shields down most of the time. We are given every reason to think that keeping shields up is hard work, just like it would be hard work for a knight to raise his physical shield (hence medieval shields that had a sharp lower point on which they could rest most of the time). One would apparently do anything to avoid having to raise shields, threat or no threat.

Against this, it's understandable that raising a shield is seen as an exclusively aggressive move.

Timo Saloniemi

 

[The Overlord]

As for the treknological side...

Just shields up.

But is it "just"? For some reason, the default mode for every starship, including those built solely for combat, is to have shields down most of the time. We are given every reason to think that keeping shields up is hard work, just like it would be hard work for a knight to raise his physical shield (hence medieval shields that had a sharp lower point on which they could rest most of the time). One would apparently do anything to avoid having to raise shields, threat or no threat.

Against this, it's understandable that raising a shield is seen as an exclusively aggressive move.

Timo Saloniemi

But why is raising shields considered aggressive, when its purely a defensive tactic rather then an offensive one? I doubt aggressive powers like the Romulans or Cardassians would feel same and would have their shields whenever they saw another vessels, which would give them a tactical advantage over a ship that has its shields down. Personally I would want to gage someone's intentions before lowering the shields.

Lowering shields in front an aggressive power like the Cardassians seems rather foolish. The Cardassians are an aggressive militaristic society, they would not see lowering the shields as a sign of good faith, but as a sign of weakness. So showing good faith in this regards to an enemy would just take advantage of it, is not a good idea.

 

[Deckerd]

It seems rash to make assumptions about alien fleets based on one's own culture. Look at all the bother that stemmed from the Minbari opening their gun ports as a sign of respect.

Personally I'd like to see more science fiction like Firefly, where ships are mostly unarmed because shooting at each other isn't a sensible thing to do.

 

[Pauln6]

This is one of the true mysteries of Star Trek. They painted themselves into a corner dramatically. On the one hand they seemed to have a massive amount of energy production and yet on the other they don't use basic common sense tactics like only lowering your shields when necessary.

A cloaked ship could easily transport WMDs to devastating effect - echoing tactics that serve the Taliban well. You don't even need to transport them inside your enemy vessel but that would be the best move. If you transport a weapon close to one or both nacelles, you could cripple a Federation vessel's warp drive easily. In fact in NuTrek, now that the transporter range is so long they could transport such weapons millions of KM and move away before the Starfleet ship had any hope of scanning them.

 

[Sean Aaron]

But why is raising shields considered aggressive, when its purely a defensive tactic rather then an offensive one? I doubt aggressive powers like the Romulans or Cardassians would feel same and would have their shields whenever they saw another vessels, which would give them a tactical advantage over a ship that has its shields down. Personally I would want to gage someone's intentions before lowering the shields.

Um, you've just asked why raising shields is considered aggressive and then cited examples of the two most aggressive species in Star Trek. I think you pretty well answered your own question there.

 

[The Overlord]

But why is raising shields considered aggressive, when its purely a defensive tactic rather then an offensive one? I doubt aggressive powers like the Romulans or Cardassians would feel same and would have their shields whenever they saw another vessels, which would give them a tactical advantage over a ship that has its shields down. Personally I would want to gage someone's intentions before lowering the shields.

Um, you've just asked why raising shields is considered aggressive and then cited examples of the two most aggressive species in Star Trek. I think you pretty well answered your own question there.

But then what's point of lowering your shields towards a society that would not see as a sign of respect, but a sign of weakness? Who besides the Federation considers it a sign of respect and not a sign of weakness? What's the point of showing good faith to enemies who just take advantage of it? It seems like the federation is trying to play up some archaic rule that no one else respects and thus puts the lives of the crews of Star Fleet ships in danger.

And again, how is a purely defensive tactic aggressive?

 

[Vanyel]

This is one of the true mysteries of Star Trek. They painted themselves into a corner dramatically. On the one hand they seemed to have a massive amount of energy production and yet on the other they don't use basic common sense tactics like only lowering your shields when necessary.

A cloaked ship could easily transport WMDs to devastating effect - echoing tactics that serve the Taliban well. You don't even need to transport them inside your enemy vessel but that would be the best move. If you transport a weapon close to one or both nacelles, you could cripple a Federation vessel's warp drive easily. In fact in NuTrek, now that the transporter range is so long they could transport such weapons millions of KM and move away before the Starfleet ship had any hope of scanning them.

A cloaked ship always has the advantage, even if momentarily. A D'deridex Warbird could come withing a few hundred meters of a Galaxy's port nacelle, while the Galaxy was moving with full shields, and the Galaxy would never know it. Decloak fire full weapons on that nacelle, recloack or just run like hell then recloak. Sure, if the crew of the Galaxy are quick enough, they could get a few good hits before the warbirds shields are fully up but the warbird would have done the most damage. There's a good chance the damage would be catastrophic.

And shields can be used offensively. Tom and B'Elanna proved that when they used the shields of the Delta Flyer to "bump" one of the ships they were racing against.

 

[The Overlord]

And shields can be used offensively. Tom and B'Elanna proved that when they used the shields of the Delta Flyer to "bump" one of the ships they were racing against.

Bumping a ship is not on same level as locking phasers on a ship and I'm pretty sure the shields were not designed with bumping into other ships in mind. Its like saying a car is the same as a gun, sure you can use a car to kill people, but that's not what it was designed for. The shields were designed as a defensive measuring, so how is raising them provocative?

 

[Mr_Homn]

Alien races unfamiliar with federation technology could easily just read the shields on their sensors or whatever they use as "a power build up" and it would be enough to make them nervous.

This is why it's smart to not raise shields when making first contact especially. That's why Kirk doesn't raise the shields against V'ger. Further proving the point that this is not a TNG only thing.