That explains a few things then
actually no I am not a student..
but I did learn recently how to be a conservative..
neo-con, and what ever else is bad that can be said about republicans..
though I prefer "the man"
so I am not a fan of socialism, welfare runamuck..
Another thing that bothers me is if you go back to WII, and look at History, the U.K. ended up going the route of almost communism in some respects..
you guys can make silly insinuations all day long, but one day the pyramid of welfare will tumble and The UK will end up like Greece.. arrogance has blinded many, that it will never happen there..
Starkers said:
Aw bless, did you learn from Fox news?
actually no, but Fox news isn't owned by politically driven companies like General Electric..I do my own research, and read books..lots of books..
Starkers said:
The pyramid of welfare will tumble and end up like Greece? Well actually just been on holiday to Greece, lovely place
really? wow, it sure worked out for those two bystanders killed when they had those riots there awhile back..
Starkers said:
I personally feel there is too much reliance on welfare here, but its minor changes only that are needed, and I love the notion that somehow its evil to want to look after the less fortunate in your society?
the Less fortunate.. you even talk like them..
like fortune is something that is just luckily stepped into by another, and not worked for.. the less fortunate indeed..like somehow the Gods have stacked life against you..
Starkers said:
I mean until recently America was the only western democracy that didn't have some kind of healthcare (how many Americans couldn't afford insurance again?)
well actually if you look at the statistics, many were younger adults who did NOT want to get healthcare and spend the money..and as for the rest, well they would have been able to get health care at a cheaper rate, however our restrictive Government in coalition with those in the insurance industry have blocked states from expanding health care across state lines.. which would open up competition.. In the USA each state has maybe 4 health care providers to choose from, and that was it..which kept costs high, and limited choice.. there were also mandates for coverage by the states and Federal Government for coverage to add things like plastic surgery, and cosmetic surgery and frivolous things that added more cost..
Starkers said:
And the unions haven't had much real power here since the 70s.
I am sorry, did you just say that the unions haven't had much power since the 1970's in the UK?
Ummm the Labour Party? Gordon Brown? Tony Blair?
Taken from Wikipedia:
The Labour Party is a membership organisation consisting of Constituency Labour Parties, affiliated trade unions, socialist societies and the Co-operative Party, with which it has an electoral agreement.
The party grew out of the trade union movement and socialist political parties of the 19th century seeking representation for workers.
Historically the party was broadly in favour of socialism, as set out in Clause Four[4] of the original party constitution, and advocated socialist policies such as public ownership of key industries, government intervention in the economy, redistribution of wealth, increased rights for workers, the welfare state, publicly-funded healthcare and education.
Starkers said:
You realise of course that the unions in the US weild a lot of power too right? By the way how is the US economy doing?
yeah the Unions here in the US wield too much power.. our stimulus money that Obama touted to save jobs, actually went to states, and their Federal Unions and the car bailout went to GM's Unions.. so the Keynesian economic theories are full of crap..each time that has been tried it has failed..
Starkers said:
Equating socialism to communism makes about as much sense as equating conservatism with fascism!
wow..did you just really say that?? wow...
Okay.. let me explain this to you..cause I like you starkers, you got spirit and a brilliant mind, and can rationalize reason without emotional hindrances....
Socialism is similar to
communism because it takes money from the wealthy..and redistributes it to the government, who touts that they can divvy it up to the masses better.. One point that is frequently raised to distinguish socialism from communism is that socialism generally refers to an economic system, while communism generally refers to both an economic and a political system. As an economic system, socialism seeks to manage the economy through deliberate and collective social control. Communism, however, seeks to manage both the economy and the society by ensuring that property is owned collectively, and that control over the distribution of property is centralized in order to achieve both classlessness and statelessness.
as for your comment on
Conservatism VS. Fascism..
Conservatism is a political and social philosophy that promotes the maintenance of traditional institutions and opposes rapid change in society.Conservatism in the United States includes a variety of political ideologies including fiscal conservatism, supply-side economics, social conservatism, libertarian Conservatism, bioconservatism, and religious conservatism, as well as support for a strong militray.
Conservatism is more about free market and capitalism with smaller government controls.. more individualism and more competition.. and the promoting of a consumption tax as apposed to a tyrannical progressive income tax.
on the flip side you have
fascism, which is governmental control of business.. Fascists seek to organize a nation according to corporatist perspectives, values, and systems, including the political system and the economy. Fascists believe that a nation is an organic community that requires strong leadership, singular collective identity, and the will and ability to commit violence and wage war in order to keep the nation strong. They claim that culture is created by the collective national society and its state, that cultural ideas are what give individuals identity, and thus they reject individualism. collective culture over the individual..(big government)
conservatism is more about individualism (small central Government) then anything else.. and fascism is about a figure head, and the rest of everyone as a collective machine..
as for the economy here..if the size and scale of the central Government was reduced, and welfare limited, and more businesses were able to expand and hire, we would see a severe reduction in our poor..however, our poor are considered wealthy by the rest of the world standards..our poor have cell phones, tv sets, maybe a car, and section 8 provided housing which is free, and there are free clinics all over the country..in addition to the local DAV and Goodwill stores which stock anything from glassware to clothes at a cheap rate..food stamps are issued if you need assistance..
we have a wonderful safety net here, contrary to media spin..just no one seems to be appreciative and use those tools to move ahead, rather some seem to want to stay in their plight and not seek a different solution..Einstein said that doing the smae thing over and over again expecting a different result is the definition of insanity, and Bejamin Franklin said that the sure to the plight of the poor is to make being poor uncomfortable..
I think that our National Debt is such that if we instituted a fair consumption tax, our national debt would be reduced in half within the first 2 years..some economists estimate about 14 trillion dollars worth of businesses would relocate to the US if we had a consumption tax over a progressive income tax..
I am a believer that more competition, less government, and less regulations (only biological safety, and fraud is exempt) and the removal of the federal reserve, and the regressive income tax with a replaced system of consumption tax would truly institute a free market economy.. people say we have the free market here, and it is not true.. we have not truly had a free market economy since WWII..