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Sequel/Transformers 2: we're in trouble

:lol: You've got to give M'Sharak time to sit down and have a cup of tea before starting the new forum!
I'll even make it for him. :cool: I was just curious, for example, how long this forum was established before the movie debuted. It doesn't seem like they really have anything to talk about yet.
The original "go here" post in GTD went up on 14 September, 2007, about 15 months before the expected December 2008 release date. The Trek XI forum Official Welcome Thread went up about a week later. Some threads in the forum date to late July of 2007, but I'm assuming they originated in other forums and were later moved.

We don't have any sort of firm start date for a Trek XII forum yet. I imagine that'll be contingent to some extent upon how long this one hangs around the theaters, but I might guess that it'll be some time toward late summer or mid-autumn, Northern Hemisphere time. Again, just guessing.
 
One thing I've learned about writers in Hollywood from years of watching movies and paying close attention to who wrote and directed each is that sometimes you just need to judge the writer's work one project at a time. Yes, there are people who are just hacks that stink up pretty much any project they're attached to, but much of the time, it really depends on the individual project...some people are just better suited to some projects than others.

Plus you have to consider x-factors like studio interference, and when working with a franchise, the basic building blocks the writer(s) can play with that gives an advantage (or disadvantage) over things written from scratch.

For example, consider Akiva Goldsman, who all by himself wrote one of the worst comic book/superhero movies in "Batman & Robin". Here's a guy who clearly didn't research the source material or have the right kind of perspective to understand what is required to make a big screen Batman story work. And yet he wrote an Oscar worthy screenplay for "A Beautiful Mind", working from a book that I'm sure is very good, so he's proven to not be a completely worthless writer and is still prospering in Hollywood despite writing a movie that killed the Batman franchise for 7 years.

Similarly, John Logan wrote 'best picture' winner Gladiator before (apparently due in part to meddling by Patrick Stewart and Brent Spiner) throwing together the wretched "Star Trek: Nemesis".

A recent example of a writer's track record being totally contradicted is "My Life in Ruins", a movie written by Mike Reiss that by all accounts is a completely lame, cliche-riddled disaster of a romantic comedy. And yet it's written by a man who co-wrote some of the most beautifully moving and cleverly funny Simpsons episodes and co-executive produced some of its funniest and most touching early seasons.

In that case, I guess the collaborators helped a lot. Or maybe he's just as wrong for live action romantic comedy as he's right for animated dramedy. I said something similar about Bryan Singer and his "X2" writers after they followed the triumph of "X2" with the very flawed "Superman Returns".

To use an example that will probably be more applicable to the Star Trek sequel...think about how "Casino Royale" was written by the same two guys who wrote the ridiculous "Die Another Day". The big difference in writing teams between the two movies is that they were assisted by Paul Haggis on "Casino Royale" and you can see what a big difference one writer made.

Again, it probably helped that this was based on a supposedly good book, unlike the completely original creation of the previous Bond movie. I don't think O & K will have a good Star Trek book to work off, but word is they'll be assisted by a writer for "Lost", so hopefully he'll reign in some of their bad tendencies and bring order and subtlety to the writing as Haggis apparently did with "Casino Royale". So fear not, the movie still has a fighting chance of not sucking. :)
 
FemurBone said:
I've said it before and i'll say it again. A franchise cannot be built on explosions and shaky cameras.
I guess that's why the Bourne trilogy was a huge flop.





















Oh...wait. It wasn't.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
 
O/K aren't really responsible for Michael Bay. The first one wasn't exactly good either, it was just a blur to me.
 
I think a lot more people incorrectly assume that any source other than *themselves* can tell them if a movie is good or not.

You would think that I was trying to get that very point across since so many people like the new Star Trek and I don't.
 
FemurBone said:
I've said it before and i'll say it again. A franchise cannot be built on explosions and shaky cameras.
I guess that's why the Bourne trilogy was a huge flop.

The Bourne Trilogy had cadence, characters that were well rounded development wise, and interesting stories that kept the audience thinking. Shaky cams can work, but not in everything (i.e. Star Trek).
 
FemurBone said:
I've said it before and i'll say it again. A franchise cannot be built on explosions and shaky cameras.

Transformers was a franchise long before the movies, and will continue to be one long after the movies aren't being made anymore.

Since Transformers and Star Trek are very different films I don't really see what bearing one has on the other. What do people expect from writers? The same thing no matter what the story is? THAT would be hackery - not creating different scripts for different types of films.
 
Latest interview with Orci and Kurtzman says theyve been reading what the fans have been saying online and

They say they're debating between "the exploration sci-fi plot where the unknown and nature itself is somehow an adversary or the villain model. That's an active discussion we're having right now. In terms of thinking about more than one movie, we want the movie to be self-contained in a way, but we're discussing the idea of having a couple of threads where if the second movie works, you could pick up into a cohesive whole. No thread more exciting and shocking for me when in "Star Trek III" you realize that Spock grabbed Bones and downloaded his Katra into him. When I saw "Star Trek II" I was like, "What's going on here?" and two years later, you're watching it and you're like "They're geniuses! They're geniuses!" So we're trying to think is there a version of that but again, "Star Trek II" does not rely on that thread, even though it turns out to be a thread. So we're thinking in those terms."
 
M'Sharak, thanks. :) So, 15 months; not two years I was wondering about. It just seemed like two years with the 2007 date. I'm guessing there won't be a new forum until there's something published to talk about, too, like casting rumors and such.
 
i just think trying get rid of this one and then create another for the new movie is going to have issues.
as i pointed out else where even after this movie is gone from the threatres there will be the dvd with very possibly new material.

just brand the forum abramverse trek : the new beginning.

as for ..

They say they're debating between "the exploration sci-fi plot where the unknown and nature itself is somehow an adversary or the villain model

you can actually do both.
tos had several episodes where it looked like it will be crew vs villian but then turned into exploration of the unknown too.

heck set it up with exploration then the villian and have the unknown affect them both.
 
- Transwarp Beaming
:brickwall:
It's simple, as soon as you realize it's space that's moving. (really, read some quantum physics books and you'll see they're right/close).

- Scotty having womanizer thoughts towards the Enterprise.
:(
Always did

- Kirk ordering all weapons to be fired on Nero's ship even though
A. It can't fight back.
B. It was already doomed!
:shifty:
Had to destroy Narada, or it could've slipped into another time frame.

- Spock putting aside logic for the wrong reasons.
:confused:
And how many home worlds have you lost? Or mother's literally slip away from you?

- Uhura once again being put into a useless position on the ship.
:mad:
Found the Klingon message/confirmed it to give credence to Kirk's warning

- Centurion Slugs.
:sigh:
That one could have been different, truth serum would have been better, or better yet a Romulan attempt at a mind-meld.

- Uhura being the only female character.
:scream::scream::scream:
Gailia

Clearly no writer in this universe could do a better job than these two dopes with characters they obviously know everything about.
Everyone was pretty much in character for how they could have been at that time period, facing those circumstances.
 
Latest interview with Orci and Kurtzman says theyve been reading what the fans have been saying online and

They say they're debating between "the exploration sci-fi plot where the unknown and nature itself is somehow an adversary or the villain model. That's an active discussion we're having right now..."

Check out their new commentary on the latest "ST IV: The Voyage Home" DVD. They discuss the merits of ST IV having no supervillain, and that it's a problem of the unknown (probe) and nature (extinction of whales).
 
If that's Orci and Kurtzman's idea of a big blockbuster sequel....

We're in huge trouble.

Transfomers, Revenge of the Fallen. Worst 'big' film this past decade. Awful garbage. Boring, over-long, a giant mess, horrible editing, pathetic acting and script and terrible pacing. That's two and a half hours of my life I'd like back.

Trek 2 could be in trouble. Hopefully it's mostly Bay's fault.
This assumes that:


  • Orci and Kurtzman approached "Revenge of the Fallen" in the same way they approached "Trek"
  • The respective producers and directors of these films had zero input, the writers worked in a complete vacuum without any studio interference.
  • "Transformers", "Revenge of the Fallen" and "Star Trek" are the only examples of the writing from these two we have to draw from as representative of their work.
I haven't seen RoTF yet, but from what I have seen I think it should be a fun romp with lots of 'splosions, which is all I ever expected from it. But I'm under no illusions that Bay didn't have a significant influence on the story.
 
This assumes that:


  • Orci and Kurtzman approached "Revenge of the Fallen" in the same way they approached "Trek"
  • The respective producers and directors of these films had zero input, the writers worked in a complete vacuum without any studio interference.
  • "Transformers", "Revenge of the Fallen" and "Star Trek" are the only examples of the writing from these two we have to draw from as representative of their work.
I haven't seen RoTF yet, but from what I have seen I think it should be a fun romp with lots of 'splosions, which is all I ever expected from it. But I'm under no illusions that Bay didn't have a significant influence on the story.

Exactly right: from the commentary of the last film, almost everything that people thought was stupid or out of place seems to have come from Bay - he just likes shit like that.
 
I do wonder at Uhura's judgment though. she intercepted that message. it should have rung a whole lot of warning bells to her. why didn't she tell her superior about it? (maybe she did, but we don't see that).

either way, it was still Kirk who thought something of it... he thought it was interesting. either way, it's just a bit unsettling... this whole track.

then again, TOS had a lot of stuff like this, as well. just as we had plenty warnings about 9/11 that were ignored.
 
I do wonder at Uhura's judgment though. she intercepted that message. it should have rung a whole lot of warning bells to her. why didn't she tell her superior about it? (maybe she did, but we don't see that).

either way, it was still Kirk who thought something of it... he thought it was interesting. either way, it's just a bit unsettling... this whole track.

then again, TOS had a lot of stuff like this, as well. just as we had plenty warnings about 9/11 that were ignored.

I happen to think she did, and that was why she was kicked out of the communication lab - since she was meant to be working there a lot later according to Gaila. She reported the signal, and the comms lab was shut down for cadets, so that Starfleet staff could analyse it.

It's only when we then hear about the lightning storm that Kirk makes the connection to the Narada. And the only people who would make that connection are him and Pike. So it's not unreasonable that no-one would go on full alert over a report that Romulans were fighting Klingons.
 
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