Selected Ships of the 23rd Century Star Fleet
- Thread starter Arpy
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I love any time someone forgoes a saucer. If you look at TOS and TAS the only time we saw a saucer was on a Starship class ship. (Constitution.)
But we saw LOTS of nacelles starting with the Galileo and working our way up to the Fed ships in TAS.
The first time we saw a saucer repurposed for another ship was in the Franz Joseph Technical Manual. The first time on film was not until The Wrath of Khan. And after that the deal was done: Fed ship = saucer.
But we saw LOTS of nacelles starting with the Galileo and working our way up to the Fed ships in TAS.
The first time we saw a saucer repurposed for another ship was in the Franz Joseph Technical Manual. The first time on film was not until The Wrath of Khan. And after that the deal was done: Fed ship = saucer.
Not quite. You’re forgetting about the Bonaventure, which also sported a saucer.
I am forgetting the Bonaventure. And really, wouldn't we all like to?
Very fair point.
I will run like the wind for that loophole and point out that all of the Time Trap ships are apparently rough drafts for the alien ship that we see in Beyond the Farthest Star. This was when the designer didn't know the derelict ship wasn't Federation.
Yes.I am forgetting the Bonaventure. And really, wouldn't we all like to?
Yes, we would.
Some thoughts on the ships as I worked on them:
Through Deck Carrier -- serves a number of support, survey, colonization, evacuation, and other missions in peacetime, and as a troop and materiel transport and other missions in wartime. Manned by a smaller crew and equipped with five times the auxiliary craft of a heavy cruiser, with more pilot & guest accommodations and fewer labs and deep space amenities.
*Carriers, though larger than cruisers, are not as formidable against other capital ships of the major interstellar powers, as shuttles, fighters, and the like are generally no match for the latter's greater shield and weapons outputs. (Trek is not Galactica.)
Heavy Cruiser -- the top of the heap. The premier exploratory and defense vehicle of the Federation Starfleet. Until the special commission of a handful of limited dreadnoughts, this was the biggest baddest combat vessel in service. Its large deflector array makes it more maneuverable at warp (and formidable at sublight) than anything comparable in the fleet, and it's still the best vessel to send in search of the unknown.
Heavy Frigate -- no dangling satellite tv dish here :P The upper pod includes additional weapons and houses a full deflector assembly requisite on all FTL ships until the advent of the four-nacelled Star Cruisers. Limited labs and amenities (especially on standard frigates) (though not insubstantial) with a focus on support of defensive and offensive operations.
Cruiser -- the baseline ship of Starfleet. If the Enterprise is a heavy cruiser (presumably larger and tougher than the majority of the fleet) regular cruisers (like this one and the USS Exeter from Star Trek Online) are the baseline for it. This one has fewer decks in its saucer, dorsal, and stardrive, thinner pylons and additional support beam, and a smaller deflector to accommodate its smaller volume. Its nacelles are also less advanced models than those on the heavy cruisers. These ships may not hold the special reverence of flagship classes like the Constitution, but they are the ubiquitous face of Starfleet throughout interstellar space.
Heavy/Corvette -- if cruisers are larger ships and frigates midsized, corvettes are the smaller ships of the fleet. I imagine many multiples of these for every one of the larger ships in service, taking on any local and short range missions that don't require a ship with the additional amenities of a saucer added to a baseline stardrive -- what actually constitutes a starship.
Long Range Star Cruiser -- the overwhelming majority of space being largely empty or relatively benign, Starfleet saw the need to get to or stay deeper into it for longer stretches without sidelining some of its most formidable ships. The long range cruiser type would fit that build. More of a mobile platform than a starship, it could function at high warp for longer periods and accomplish most tasks of other larger cruisers in less time.
Light Long Range Star Cruiser -- might take on further followup missions to distant locations, do broad surveys, perimeter monitoring and the rare deep space scouting mission, and they might rarely stop at all.
Through Deck Carrier -- serves a number of support, survey, colonization, evacuation, and other missions in peacetime, and as a troop and materiel transport and other missions in wartime. Manned by a smaller crew and equipped with five times the auxiliary craft of a heavy cruiser, with more pilot & guest accommodations and fewer labs and deep space amenities.
*Carriers, though larger than cruisers, are not as formidable against other capital ships of the major interstellar powers, as shuttles, fighters, and the like are generally no match for the latter's greater shield and weapons outputs. (Trek is not Galactica.)
Heavy Cruiser -- the top of the heap. The premier exploratory and defense vehicle of the Federation Starfleet. Until the special commission of a handful of limited dreadnoughts, this was the biggest baddest combat vessel in service. Its large deflector array makes it more maneuverable at warp (and formidable at sublight) than anything comparable in the fleet, and it's still the best vessel to send in search of the unknown.
Heavy Frigate -- no dangling satellite tv dish here :P The upper pod includes additional weapons and houses a full deflector assembly requisite on all FTL ships until the advent of the four-nacelled Star Cruisers. Limited labs and amenities (especially on standard frigates) (though not insubstantial) with a focus on support of defensive and offensive operations.
Cruiser -- the baseline ship of Starfleet. If the Enterprise is a heavy cruiser (presumably larger and tougher than the majority of the fleet) regular cruisers (like this one and the USS Exeter from Star Trek Online) are the baseline for it. This one has fewer decks in its saucer, dorsal, and stardrive, thinner pylons and additional support beam, and a smaller deflector to accommodate its smaller volume. Its nacelles are also less advanced models than those on the heavy cruisers. These ships may not hold the special reverence of flagship classes like the Constitution, but they are the ubiquitous face of Starfleet throughout interstellar space.
Heavy/Corvette -- if cruisers are larger ships and frigates midsized, corvettes are the smaller ships of the fleet. I imagine many multiples of these for every one of the larger ships in service, taking on any local and short range missions that don't require a ship with the additional amenities of a saucer added to a baseline stardrive -- what actually constitutes a starship.
Long Range Star Cruiser -- the overwhelming majority of space being largely empty or relatively benign, Starfleet saw the need to get to or stay deeper into it for longer stretches without sidelining some of its most formidable ships. The long range cruiser type would fit that build. More of a mobile platform than a starship, it could function at high warp for longer periods and accomplish most tasks of other larger cruisers in less time.
Light Long Range Star Cruiser -- might take on further followup missions to distant locations, do broad surveys, perimeter monitoring and the rare deep space scouting mission, and they might rarely stop at all.
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It wasn’t a priority, but I did cobble one together. Might post later.No Dreadnought/Battleship?
IMO more command ship or tender than super-carrier.
Yup. A modern combat-optimized version might be a Battlecruiser.
To the extent these are separate things, the Cruiser should be above both the Heavy and Standard Frigate, as it is likely to be a generalist workhorse, whereas they are likely to be at least somewhat specialized.
I generally slot Cutter and/or Escort in here.
Surveyor.
Scout.
It is the equivalent to the Klingon battlecruiser.
The cruiser is definitely above a frigate, but given the heavy frigate’s displacement (set by TWOK) it’s difficult to not put it near equivalent to a heavy cruiser. Maybe this class was an outlier.
I don’t see why there can’t be other types of ship as well. Most of the fleet are smaller vessels like these.
These are missions these long-range cruisers/star cruisers are capable of, but they maybe be too big and capable to be just these. Is the Stargazer (twice the displacement of its contemporary Connie) a surveyor? Is a Hermes (with a heavy cruiser’s saucer, dorsal, and engine) a scout? I see a scout as something much smaller—if a little bigger than the oversized runabout called a scout that Data flew in INS.
At least in displacement terms, yeah
AFAIK, the Miranda-class was a cruiser not a frigate?
There certainly are, however my point is that I prefer the terms "cutter" (lightly armed patrol vessel with some science capacity) and "escort" (medium to heavily armed vessel designed for combat and particularly convoy protection) rather than "corvette" but YMMV.
The various cruiser sub-types are all generalists pretty much by definition (though perhaps better at one), whereas these smaller/less crewed vessels are more likely to be specialists in the indicated mission.
Starcruiser, pretty specifically given that one of its sister ships is so described.
IMO "Main Engineering" is in the other section of a twin-hull, so the Hermes would have much reduced engines/fuel stores, also less space for other things, making it more of a specialist, hence "scout".
Honestly, that was basically just another runabout design, possibly a wartime variant specifically intended to counter the Hideki-class patrol vessel, potentially including innovations from the Delta Flyer.
Whaddaya mean? How is it/is it not equivalent in other terms?
I’d always heard it referred to as a frigate. What’s with the different configuration of it’s another cruiser—have any theories?
I need to find someway to use clipper or schooner and maybe galleon or brigantine. Maybe for alien ships.
The long range star cruiser isn’t really smaller. It’s got twice the saucer of a Constitution and displaces at least as much space. (Might have more decks between the nacelles too.)
What other section, the nacelles? Or are you saying in the stardrive, which it doesn’t have, so all that’s now in the saucer?
Yeah, but it’s referred to as a scout so a scout we have to consider it.
I wasn't really happy with the one dreadnought I'd cobbled together so I tried another, then another... None really work for me, but maybe my misadventures might help someone else. Maybe they're *all out there somewhere in the multiverse.
Which is your favorite?
If I had to pick it would be the top row, center ship. However having a Reliant-style primary hull and/or through-deck flight deck doesn't feel right for a dreadnought/battleship. I can the Constellation-class from TNG being a carrier instead. All IMHO.
Mostly in the sense of potentially being better at (though both are capable of) non-combat and particularly science applications.
Not during it's original era AFAIK, though licensed media and maybe even canon does describe it as either frigate or destroyer for the TNG+ era sans the Deep Space Nine Technical Manual (which describes it as a "medium cruiser").
Given it's original use on screen, my guess would be that it's an Aviation Cruiser specifically intended for colony support and auxiliary craft tender roles.
Perhaps not, but the frigate and corvette/cutter/escort probably should be, which was my intended point.
The second one.
Whether that was its type or whether that was its assignment is ambiguous IMO, given that we have at least one canonical case of an Oberth-class being referred to as a "shuttle" IIRC.
Agreed, though as with the Miranda above, perhaps more of a cruiser-carrier/aviation cruiser rather than a "pure carrier".
Some carriers and more I've found interesting:
Jackill:
Lobo Class Through Deck Carrier
Oriskany Class Through Deck Cruiser
Clemenceau Class Carrier
Dakota Class Shuttle Carrier
Trojan Class Troop Transport
Games:
Ranger Class Carrier
Typhon Class Carrier
Jupiter Class Carrier
Fan:
USS Saipan Assault Shuttle Carrier
Decade Class Extra Galactc Carrier
Star Trek Schematics Carrier Page
Other:
Curry Class Carrier
Jackill:
Lobo Class Through Deck Carrier
Oriskany Class Through Deck Cruiser
Clemenceau Class Carrier
Dakota Class Shuttle Carrier
Trojan Class Troop Transport
Games:
Ranger Class Carrier
Typhon Class Carrier
Jupiter Class Carrier
Fan:
USS Saipan Assault Shuttle Carrier
Decade Class Extra Galactc Carrier
Star Trek Schematics Carrier Page
Other:
Curry Class Carrier
Definitely doesn't hold a candle to the Constitution in most things non-combat oriented.
Medium cruiser doesn't work for me as, again, it displaces about as much as the heavy cruiser.
This I do like. I'll have to consider it further.
Have you ever thought about what ships of other configurations might be? Many fan designs reassemble the Enterprise in unusual ways ultimately creating more or less comparably sized ships. We can blame Franz Joseph for some of this and some fans' lack of creativity for some more, but it can be interesting wondering what they might each be for.
Nah. As I stated above, I think of stardrives as starships. Saucers are expansions upon. That they're everywhere these days I think kind of silly. Victims of their own success--their being synonymous with Starfleet/Star Trek ships.
I usually eye roll when a Klingon goes on about honor or a Vulcan logic too. It becomes camp after a certain point. Hell, in VOY they took another one-word quality word -- cunning -- and built the Hirogen around it. People are vast, they contain multitudes, every conversation or part of their lives does not revolve around one character trait. Frankly, it's kind of racist to write a people that way. But that's a whole 'nother thread.
Spock also referred to planets within the same galaxy as millions of lightyears from each other. Sometimes it's just a TV show. They used the Grissom model instead of a shuttle. You could say the character misspoke or didn't realize the other vessel was a ship rather than a shuttle. Or...is this the Wesley missing his shuttle to the Academy episode? Maybe he did miss the last shuttle over to the ship, for some reason.
We can't pick and choose what canon we want to follow...bwaaahahahahaaaa...couldn't get that out with a straight face. I'm taking this one at face value. It was a smaller scout. Like the maybe frigate above being supersized, maybe there are scouts in the fleet that are larger than this one too.
