Seed Plantation

[RobertScorpio]

My wife, and a couple of my sisters, hate Captain Kirk because they see him as a womanizer. I want to defend Kirk here. Kirk is not a womanizer in the way I see a womanizer being.

Bill Clinton; he is a womanizer. He was married, is married, to Hillary. And yet his 'straying' is, IMO, no longer in the 'maybe' column; he strayed. And knowing Bill Clinton, he probably still does.

Captain Kirk was not ever married durning TOS. So, if he engaged in sexual activities with women all over the galaxy, then so what? And its clear, later on in the series, and movies even, that women seem to know this about Kirk, even the men. McCoy's classic line from TUC after Marta has left after kissing Kirk..."What is it with you anyway!"...

So...Kirk was not a straying husband having flings around the galaxy. He was a single man with a pocket full of seeds and he fed the birds with it...so Fing what???

Rob
Scorpio

 

[ChristopherPike]

Ask them again, but this time tell them to imagine it's Chris Pine behaving like that...

Maybe they'll just go, "Aww... bless."

 

[Shatmandu]

Tell them they're absolutely right.

That way you can watch Star Trek alone, in peace.

Joe, and quiet

 

[Orcus]

So what if he was a womaniser? It was the 'sixties - and in the 'sixties womanising was in...

Actually, to be fair, he wasn't so much a womaniser as a serial monogymist - there's a bit of a difference...

 

[Yeoman Randi]

I never really saw him as a womanizer either. Like you say, he wasn't married and as far as i can remember he never went after any married women. For the most part the women he dallied with knew what they were getting into.

In fact, wasn't it in Dagger of the Mind that he himself is somewhat embarrassed when he meets up with Dr Helen Noel for an away mission that they dallied at some past xmas party?

 

[Christopher]

^Helen Noel is a great example. Kirk in the first season was anything but a womanizer. He was a serious, dedicated military man. In "Mudd's Women," he was the only male crewmember other than Spock to be unaffected by the women's enhanced charms, because he was so fixated on his duty. He let himself flirt a bit with Helen at the Christmas party and was embarrassed about it afterward. She pursued him. In Kirk's relationships with women, the women were often the aggressors (Eve, Helen, Miri, Janice Rand, Nona, Elaan, Deela). When Kirk was the initiator, it was often because he was manipulating the woman in order to accomplish his mission (as with Lenore Karidian, Andrea, Sylvia, Marlena, Kalinda, Miranda, etc.). Somewhat exploitative, yes, but his goal wasn't sexual conquest; the seduction was merely a calculating means to achieving his goals as an officer -- find the killer, free the landing party, save the ship.

Conversely, in his relationships that were actually personal and not manipulative, he either fell deeply and intensely in love (Ruth, Edith, Miramanee, Rayna) or else had a romantic relationship that ended on fairly good terms (Areel Shaw, Janet Wallace). His only "ex" who had any negative feelings toward him was Janice Lester, and she was psychotic.

So these are not the characteristics of a womanizer. Jim Kirk was a man who cared deeply for women and was very popular with women -- though he was a military man first and would always put duty above desire.


I think any "womanizer" tendencies that appear to exist in Kirk are merely artifacts of the way '60s television was written -- purely episodic, no ongoing relationships, the hero expected to have various romances-of-the-week. Kirk was initially a very serious, disciplined officer, much as Pike was written in the first pilot, but as the series went on, he was pressed more and more into the stereotypical '60s TV hero mold.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

<snip>

When Kirk was the initiator, it was often because he was manipulating the woman in order to accomplish his mission (as with Lenore Karidian, Andrea, Sylvia, Marlena, Kalinda, Miranda, etc.). Somewhat exploitative, yes, but his goal wasn't sexual conquest; the seduction was merely a calculating means to achieving his goals as an officer -- find the killer, free the landing party, save the ship.

<snip>

YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Rob, tell the ladies that!

 

[Myasishchev]

Kirk: womanizer? Maybe. Deadbeat dad? Yes.

 

[childofdarkness]

I only hope that if I ever get abducted by an alien, it's someone like Captain Kirk. Or perhaps Picard. :-)

 

[gastrof]

Kirk: womanizer? Maybe. Deadbeat dad? Yes.

Carol said she wanted David in her world, not Kirk's. This suggests it was her who kept Kirk out of his son's life.

 

[Yeoman Randi]

^ Yes, in fact, in ST2 i've never even thought it was made 100% clear as to what Kirk knew. First, he looks at David and says, "Is that David?" to Carol. But then later on he says to Carol, "You ask me how i feel, I find out i have a son......"

So, did he know he had a son or not?

 

[RobertScorpio]

Kirk: womanizer? Maybe. Deadbeat dad? Yes.

Carol said she wanted David in her world, not Kirk's. This suggests it was her who kept Kirk out of his son's life.

I hate her...

Rob

 

[Christopher]

^ Yes, in fact, in ST2 i've never even thought it was made 100% clear as to what Kirk knew. First, he looks at David and says, "Is that David?" to Carol. But then later on he says to Carol, "You ask me how i feel, I find out i have a son......"

So, did he know he had a son or not?

I'm not sure about the original script, but in the novelization, Kirk didn't know David was his son until Carol told David that Kirk was his father.

And I think the line in the movie is "I find out I have a son who hates me," so that could be taken to mean that he knew he had a son, but not that his son hated him.

In both the novels and the comics, Kirk found out about David being his son while David was a child. But in every version, Carol initially chose not to tell Kirk that he had a son, and didn't want him to be a part of David's life. So it's universally accepted that Kirk didn't walk out on his son.

 

[KimMH]

^ Yes, in fact, in ST2 i've never even thought it was made 100% clear as to what Kirk knew. First, he looks at David and says, "Is that David?" to Carol. But then later on he says to Carol, "You ask me how i feel, I find out i have a son......"

So, did he know he had a son or not?

Both David and James should have been angry w/ HER for keeping them out of each other's lives. How tragic - Kirk loses a son he didn't know he had and David grew up fatherless. This does not strike me as a very loving parental decision on Carol's part. If JT was a drug addicted criminal it might have been understandable. (why would she be having sex w/ a drug addicted criminal anyway? my apologies to any drug-addicted criminals out there taking offense)

 

[Nerys Myk]

^ Yes, in fact, in ST2 i've never even thought it was made 100% clear as to what Kirk knew. First, he looks at David and says, "Is that David?" to Carol. But then later on he says to Carol, "You ask me how i feel, I find out i have a son......"

So, did he know he had a son or not?

Both David and James should have been angry w/ HER for keeping them out of each other's lives. How tragic - Kirk loses a son he didn't know he had and David grew up fatherless. This does not strike me as a very loving parental decision on Carol's part. If JT was a drug addicted criminal it might have been understandable. (why would she be having sex w/ a drug addicted criminal anyway? my apologies to any drug-addicted criminals out there taking offense)

Carols father was a career Starfleet officer who was away from home most of the time and when he was home was unloving and distant. Later he was killed in battle with the Klingons. Carol didn't shed a single tear when she heard the news.

(okay I made all that up)

 

[Myasishchev]

Kirk: womanizer? Maybe. Deadbeat dad? Yes.

Carol said she wanted David in her world, not Kirk's. This suggests it was her who kept Kirk out of his son's life.

I know, I'm foolin'.

 

[fek'lhr1]

As an owner of a vagina I have to say the only reason why I don't like Kirk is his smugness.
As for womanizer, her certianly is not one. He is a lover of women, and looking at his relationships with the women in star trek many of them were more then superficial love affairs. Take Edith Keeler for example, Kirk truly loved her.
And I can say from watching the series out of the great many loves he has had very few actually resent him, many actually still lust for his tight uniform pants.