That was my impression. That they were civilian law enforcement. The man who arrested McCoy said he was "Federation Security" which always made me think it was the UFP version of the CIA or FBI.
Security or Marines?
- Thread starter Shaka Zulu
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That was my impression. That they were civilian law enforcement. The man who arrested McCoy said he was "Federation Security" which always made me think it was the UFP version of the CIA or FBI.
I can, but who says Kirk and Sulu were doing anything of the sort? Kirk come to visit McCoy. If he wasn't supposed to be there, the guards should not have allowed him inside the cell and should instead have asked him to wait until McCoy was moved to the appropriate psychiatric facility.
--Sran
It was my understanding that guards, who are assigned to guard a certain thing or person, have pretty much absolute authority over anyone trying to intrude upon what's guarded. Even if the Admiral of the Fleet showed up and demanded access to the prisoner, the guards wouldn't let them in without proper ID and orders.
(Like "Mr. Adventure" - he was doing his duty, asking where Kirk's orders and IDs were, but Uhura locked him in the closet so he couldn't stop her)
(Like "Mr. Adventure" - he was doing his duty, asking where Kirk's orders and IDs were, but Uhura locked him in the closet so he couldn't stop her)
I understand the point you're making, but that still doesn't address the issue of why they were copping an attitude about it. Both Kirk and Sulu presented valid ID when entering the facility. Authority or no, one need not act like a jerk merely to prove that he's master of his domain.
--Sran
Maybe the guards just have a very low tolerance for small talk. I can sympathize with them if that's the case. 
Maybe. I still don't see why the taller guard needed to resort to name-calling. As far as I'm concerned, Sulu was justified in beating the tar out of him.
--Sran
Sorry, I messed up the quoting. I meant to address the statement that "Kirk and Sulu still held higher ranks than they did. The guards had no business ordering them around anymore than someone serving on another vessel would. [...] Enlisted personnel do not order around flag officers under any circumstances. The guards were out of order."
No, the guards were right. Remember what I said: they have absolute authority over whatever or whoever it is they are guarding. If anyone barges in and demands access without proper orders/ID, the guards can bar them, even if it's the highest of flag officers.
Pretty much so. I worked in some secure facilities while in the Army. If you weren't on the access roster, you weren't getting into the building no matter how many stars you had on your collar. Period.
I'm not questioning their authority over the prison area. I'm questioning why they gave Kirk and Sulu so much attitude. Neither man barged into the detention block without ID, nor did they threaten the guards in any manner until it was time to break McCoy out his cell. Authority is not an excuse to act like a spoiled brat.
--Sran
I'm not questioning that. I'm questioning the guards' attitudes after they allowed Kirk and Sulu to enter the area. If they felt either officer's being there was inappropriate, they should have asked them to leave. Name-calling and grand-standing wasn't necessary, though it doesn't surprise me that a couple of uneducated grunts with ugly uniforms and stupid hats wouldn't understand that.
If the best you can come up with is, "Don't get smart, Tiny," you're probably not that bright to begin with.
--Sran
Maybe the guard thought Sulu was going to try to talk his way into being allowed access to McCoy and so the guard decided to shut Sulu up before he could say anything.
Because he said, "Keeping you busy?" It looked more like the guard was being defensive because Sulu caught him yawning at his post.
--Sran
I know, I already said that in post #20.
The only thing that I can say is that these guys didn't really know that much about Kirk, McCoy, and Sulu, so they treated them like crap, as they would with anybody who's about to be put in jail or in the process of being let out.
All of the non-hero Starfleet/Federation types in that film are straw men to make our heroes look good, so the guards wouldn't be any different.
^Judo, duh. 
Asked? No, the guards would have ordered them to leave. Inside that facility Kirk's rank was meaningless.
Perhaps the manner displayed toward Kirk and others had to do with the Starfleet rumor mill.
The detail were likely unknown, but it might have been common knowledge that Kirk was involved in the destruction of the Reliant, getting the Enterprise shot up, his first officer was dead, cadets were dead, and now a section of space was off limits.
Kirk was seen as a hot shot screw-up.
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