Security or Marines?

[Shaka Zulu]

That's what I've been wondering about the officers in the security holding pen in these scene from Star Trek III: The Search For Spock. Are they the standard cops/security, or Marines on a special detail? Here's a reminder from the movie:

[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OlqErSr6Rjw&list=PL13D1C8B82730C483[/yt]

 

[Mr. Laser Beam]

I always thought that guy was a civilian security guard or police officer.

 

[Zippo and Flask]

Confess that you created this thread only because it created the opportunity for us to see the "don't call me tiny" clip!

I don't know how many times I've seen ST III in my life, but this was the first time I noticed that Kirk gave McCoy the Vulcan salute when he asked him how many fingers he was holding up. I need to start paying attention in life.

 

[Metryq]

"That ain't a shepherd," and it ain't a Marine, either. Those guys in red with the helmets look far more dangerous than the rent-a-cops "guarding" the cell.

 

[Shaka Zulu]

I was referring to the guys in blue and white, actually and wondering if they were Marines, but I guess maybe you're right.

 

[xvicente]

They must be Starfleet. Their uniforms have all the pins and patchs and emblems as the red ones

LOL now I see the jackets have zippers in the back! must be difficult for them to dress for work.

 

[Crazyewok]

I thought it was just Starfleet jail guards.

 

[SpHeRe31459]

Yep just security of some sort.

We've never seen confirmed marines in Trek, the closest we've come to sort of marines are the MACOs from the much later production of the Enterprise TV series.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Does anyone else find it funny that the guards are ordering around Kirk and Sulu as though they're nothing? Kirk was a flag officer, and Sulu was only a few steps away from a command of his own at this point in time. Those guys must have been suffering from some sort of complex.

--Sran

 

[Crazyewok]

Does anyone else find it funny that the guards are ordering around Kirk and Sulu as though they're nothing? Kirk was a flag officer, and Sulu was only a few steps away from a command of his own at this point in time. Those guys must have been suffering from some sort of complex.

--Sran

But then they had a job which Kirk and Sula had no jurisdiction over.

They were there to guard the prisoner. Kirk and sulu were potential threats to that job.

 

[xvicente]

Does anyone else find it funny that the guards are ordering around Kirk and Sulu as though they're nothing? Kirk was a flag officer, and Sulu was only a few steps away from a command of his own at this point in time. Those guys must have been suffering from some sort of complex.

--Sran

Now that you mention it. At that point in time Kirk and company beside being high ranking officers, had done nothing but save Earth time and again. The guys should be celebrities.

The two assholes deserved the beating Kirk and Sulu gave them.

The Terran government seems to be very totalitarian. Look how they locked McCoy --a frail old man on meds!-- just for saying a word out loud.

And the Mirror Universe though they had it bad.

 

[Crazyewok]

just for saying a word out loud.

Well we all know how tetchy goverments can get over classified information *cough* *cough*

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

But then they had a job which Kirk and Sula had no jurisdiction over.

They were there to guard the prisoner. Kirk and sulu were potential threats to that job.

How? Kirk and Sulu were Starfleet officers. The guards were also in Starfleet. Whatever their assignment may have been, they were still subject to the same chain of command that anyone else would be. If an admiral- a highly decorated admiral, no less- asks to visit his friend in a prison cell, there's no reason for a guard to give him attitude about it.

And how were Kirk and Sulu threats to the guards? They didn't take action until they were just about to take McCoy out of the detention area. Yet we have the first guard ordering Kirk around, and the second calls a superior officer a name because of a height difference.

--Sran

 

[Crazyewok]

But then they had a job which Kirk and Sula had no jurisdiction over.

They were there to guard the prisoner. Kirk and sulu were potential threats to that job.

How? Kirk and Sulu were Starfleet officers. The guards were also in Starfleet. Whatever their assignment may have been, they were still subject to the same chain of command that anyone else would be. If an admiral- a highly decorated admiral, no less- asks to visit his friend in a prison cell, there's no reason for a guard to give him attitude about it.

And how were Kirk and Sulu threats to the guards? They didn't take action until they were just about to take McCoy out of the detention area. Yet we have the first guard ordering Kirk around, and the second calls a superior officer a name because of a height difference.

--Sran

Well all I can say is that they knew they were McCoys freinds and they knew Kirks mavorick personality.

No doubt they may have been warned before hand to keep a eye out on them if they turned up.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Well all I can say is that they knew they were McCoys freinds and they knew Kirks mavorick personality.

No doubt they may have been warned before hand to keep a eye out on them if they turned up.

I think that's a stretch. Kirk had no maverick personality until the events in question. It was only after TSFS that his reputation as a rule-breaker came to light. Before that, he'd been a respected member of Starfleet, albeit something of a dinosaur.

--Sran

 

[Metryq]

Well we all know how tetchy goverments can get over classified information *cough* *cough*

Yeah, that's why they gave the project a name like Genesis, instead of something completely ambiguous. There must be an entry in the TVtropes site for the way top secret projects in movies and TV always have highly relevant and revealing names. Project "invisibility" or "ultimate weapon" wouldn't draw any attention. No.

Edit: Of course, it's under Code Name.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Yeah, that's why they gave the project a name like Genesis, instead of something completely ambiguous. There must be an entry in the TVtropes site for the way top secret projects in movies and TV always have highly relevant and revealing names. Project "invisibility" or "ultimate weapon" wouldn't draw any attention. No.

I don't know that Genesis was a bad choice, as most would assume it had something to do with the Bible. That it actually involved the creation of new life is something of a coincidence.

--Sran

 

[Nerys Myk]

But then they had a job which Kirk and Sula had no jurisdiction over.

They were there to guard the prisoner. Kirk and sulu were potential threats to that job.

How? Kirk and Sulu were Starfleet officers. The guards were also in Starfleet. Whatever their assignment may have been, they were still subject to the same chain of command that anyone else would be.

Kirk and Sulu aren't in their chain of command. They answer to their commanding officer, not Kirk or Sulu.

 

[Captain Clark Terrell]

Kirk and Sulu aren't in their chain of command. They answer to their commanding officer, not Kirk or Sulu.

Nonetheless, Kirk and Sulu still held higher ranks than they did. The guards had no business ordering them around anymore than someone serving on another vessel would. Each posting has its own chain of command, but Starfleet as a whole functions because of an overall chain of command that applies to everyone. Enlisted personnel do not order around flag officers under any circumstances. The guards were out of order.

--Sran

 

[J.T.B.]

But then they had a job which Kirk and Sula had no jurisdiction over.

They were there to guard the prisoner. Kirk and sulu were potential threats to that job.

How? Kirk and Sulu were Starfleet officers. The guards were also in Starfleet. Whatever their assignment may have been, they were still subject to the same chain of command that anyone else would be. If an admiral- a highly decorated admiral, no less- asks to visit his friend in a prison cell, there's no reason for a guard to give him attitude about it.

First of all, we can't be sure they are Starfleet personnel. The uniforms are quite different. I think it is more likely they are civilians employed by Starfleet, just as the US Deprtment of Defense employs non-military police and security personnel for its facilites.

Second, militaries have long recognized the "authority of a sentry," that is, if you are ordered to guard a certain place or thing, you have authority over anyone who enters the space you are responsible for, regardless of their rank, until your CO says otherwise. Can you imagine what would it would be like if anyone of superior rank could come along and change a brig guard's orders?