Section 31 'Uniforms'

[Smellincoffee]

I found the idea of Section 31 intriguing, but I find it difficult to take them seriously in the shows because from ENT to DS9, their operatives were wearing the same thing: faux-black leather. Why were they going for the comically evil look?

31 is easier to regard as a threat when their agents or influence are being assumed by the viewer, despite appearances to normality -- like the admiral in Insurrection.

 

[varek]

Yes, an intelligence operative should blend in with everyone else, rather than stand out so obviously!
Of course, maybe they would only wear these uniforms as their "smoking jackets" in private meetings.

 

[SimpleLogic]

They do seem to be very Bond villain-ish in those uniforms. "No Commander Tucker, I expect you to die."

 

[-Brett-]

The notion of a top secret quasi legal black ops organization with a recognizable uniform fails pretty spectacularly on the common sense front.

I'd kind of assumed those outfits were meant to be the futuristic equivalent of a nondescript suit and tie. I'm guessing that was the original intention, at any rate. Problem was we never saw anyone else wear them (Star Trek rarely followed ordinary folks on their 9 - 5), so it was easy for fans to take them for a uniform.

 

[Melakon]

I've not seen Into Darkness, but am disappointed S31 is even involved.

Based on what we saw with DS9, I was content to believe that Section 31 consisted of a single operative who recruited outsiders for his schemes. In a sense, Sloan as Napoleon Solo. Or perhaps Dan Briggs and Jim Phelps.

Enterprise messed that concept up a bit when Section 31 pops up there as well, but it was still one dude recruiting people like Malcolm. So maybe it's always 1 guy as Section 31, passing file information to his successor each generation.

But now it sounds like it's some big MI6/CIA/KGB organization with hundreds of minions.

 

[The Wormhole]

I found the idea of Section 31 intriguing, but I find it difficult to take them seriously in the shows because from ENT to DS9, their operatives were wearing the same thing: faux-black leather. Why were they going for the comically evil look?

At least the black outfits seen on DS9 and ENT look better than those blue outfits they wore in STID.

 

[T'Girl]

a single operative who recruited outsiders for his schemes.

Sloan was a Dark Lord of the Sith?

 

[Kevman7987]

a single operative who recruited outsiders for his schemes.

Sloan was a Dark Llord of the Sith?

"Always two there are. No more, no less." - Yoda

 

[Melakon]

a single operative who recruited outsiders for his schemes.

Sloan was a Dark Llord of the Sith?

"Always two there are. No more, no less." - Yoda

There can be only one.

 

[Bashir Trikona]

I've not seen Into Darkness, but am disappointed S31 is even involved.

Based on what we saw with DS9, I was content to believe that Section 31 consisted of a single operative who recruited outsiders for his schemes. In a sense, Sloan as Napoleon Solo. Or perhaps Dan Briggs and Jim Phelps.

Enterprise messed that concept up a bit when Section 31 pops up there as well, but it was still one dude recruiting people like Malcolm. So maybe it's always 1 guy as Section 31, passing file information to his successor each generation.

But now it sounds like it's some big MI6/CIA/KGB organization with hundreds of minions.

Well, it is a whole ''Section"

 

[F. King Daniel]

Comically evil is probably exactly what they were going for. Remember, these are the same costume designers who added brow ridges to Romulans not to "confuse" viewers. Subtle was not something they did well.

I've not seen Into Darkness, but am disappointed S31 is even involved.

Based on what we saw with DS9, I was content to believe that Section 31 consisted of a single operative who recruited outsiders for his schemes. In a sense, Sloan as Napoleon Solo. Or perhaps Dan Briggs and Jim Phelps.

Enterprise messed that concept up a bit when Section 31 pops up there as well, but it was still one dude recruiting people like Malcolm. So maybe it's always 1 guy as Section 31, passing file information to his successor each generation.

But now it sounds like it's some big MI6/CIA/KGB organization with hundreds of minions.

Well, when the "one man" in this case is...

Spoiler: Into Darkness

The head of Starfleet himself, and thus with access to almost limitless resources

...it seems kind of an inevitable direction.

 

[Dukhat]

Based on what we saw with DS9, I was content to believe that Section 31 consisted of a single operative who recruited outsiders for his schemes. In a sense, Sloan as Napoleon Solo. Or perhaps Dan Briggs and Jim Phelps.

But if we only go by what we saw in canon on-screen Trek, that could still be the case. We only ever saw two Section 31 operatives, Sloan and the 22nd century equivalent. And neither of them were particularly trustworthy.

Enterprise messed that concept up a bit when Section 31 pops up there as well, but it was still one dude recruiting people like Malcolm. So maybe it's always 1 guy as Section 31, passing file information to his successor each generation.

Actually ENT messed it up because Section 31 was supposed to have been founded during the founding of the Federation, not before.

But now it sounds like it's some big MI6/CIA/KGB organization with hundreds of minions.

But what you're describing here (and what we saw in STID) is a Section 31 from the JJVerse, in which things have accelerated to the point that they seem to no longer be a covert organization and have active personnel in England and shipbuilding facilities in plain view. That wasn't the case in the prime universe.

 

[The Wormhole]

Actually ENT messed it up because Section 31 was supposed to have been founded during the founding of the Federation, not before.

The actual wording in Inquisition is that Section 31 was part of the original Starfleet charter, therefore no reason why they couldn't be around in ENT.

 

[Timo]

We only ever saw two Section 31 operatives, Sloan and the 22nd century equivalent.

And we saw some associates of Sloan on the holodeck in "In the Cards". But since that was a holodeck, there's no particular reason to think they ever really existed.

Indeed, there's fairly little reason to think S31 exists, either. Sloan sounds like a madman; if he was a disgruntled, traumatized or otherwise silly ex-SFI agent and happened to own a boat with a transporter and a holodeck, he'd be able to pull off everything we saw in DS9.

S31 might have existed back in ENT, with real organization, operatives and whatnot. Two centuries later, people claiming to be from that organization would more probably be lone nutcases than not...

Timo Saloniemi

 

[Dukhat]

The actual wording in Inquisition is that Section 31 was part of the original Starfleet charter, therefore no reason why they couldn't be around in ENT.

I still think it's a retcon, as the wording in DS9 was obviously referring to the Federation Starfleet, since the idea of an Earth Starfleet didn't exist yet.

And we saw some associates of Sloan on the holodeck in "In the Cards". But since that was a holodeck, there's no particular reason to think they ever really existed.

Indeed, there's fairly little reason to think S31 exists, either. Sloan sounds like a madman; if he was a disgruntled, traumatized or otherwise silly ex-SFI agent and happened to own a boat with a transporter and a holodeck, he'd be able to pull off everything we saw in DS9.

S31 might have existed back in ENT, with real organization, operatives and whatnot. Two centuries later, people claiming to be from that organization would more probably be lone nutcases than not...

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, I wish that would have been the case, but that obviously wasn't the intention.

The interesting thing is that my wife and I are doing a Babylon 5 rewatch, and I'm noticing that Section 31 bears an awfully strong resemblance to the Psi Corps. Even to the point where Bester comments to Garibaldi that there are threats that Earth has faced that the general public no nothing about because the Corps stopped them before they could do anything. Heck, they even had the evil black uniforms. But of course the Psi Corps came before Section 31, so...

 

[T'Girl]

I still think it's a retcon, as the wording in DS9 was obviously referring to the Federation Starfleet, since the idea of an Earth Starfleet didn't exist yet.

It kind of the other way around, during TOS it basically was the Earth Starfleet, the idea of a Federation Starfleet is the retcon that came later.

Enterprise's Earth Starfleet fit in with TOS, even in Encounter at Farpoint it's suggested that the Enterprise Dee is a Earth ship.

 

[Gotham Central]

The actual wording in Inquisition is that Section 31 was part of the original Starfleet charter, therefore no reason why they couldn't be around in ENT.

I still think it's a retcon, as the wording in DS9 was obviously referring to the Federation Starfleet, since the idea of an Earth Starfleet didn't exist yet.

And we saw some associates of Sloan on the holodeck in "In the Cards". But since that was a holodeck, there's no particular reason to think they ever really existed.

Indeed, there's fairly little reason to think S31 exists, either. Sloan sounds like a madman; if he was a disgruntled, traumatized or otherwise silly ex-SFI agent and happened to own a boat with a transporter and a holodeck, he'd be able to pull off everything we saw in DS9.

S31 might have existed back in ENT, with real organization, operatives and whatnot. Two centuries later, people claiming to be from that organization would more probably be lone nutcases than not...

Timo Saloniemi

Yeah, I wish that would have been the case, but that obviously wasn't the intention.

The interesting thing is that my wife and I are doing a Babylon 5 rewatch, and I'm noticing that Section 31 bears an awfully strong resemblance to the Psi Corps. Even to the point where Bester comments to Garibaldi that there are threats that Earth has faced that the general public no nothing about because the Corps stopped them before they could do anything. Heck, they even had the evil black uniforms. But of course the Psi Corps came before Section 31, so...

Actually Babylon 5 had its own version of Section 31 called Bureau 13. However due to unexpected copyright issues it only appeared once. That said, Bureau 13 did include members of Psi Corp, it was just supposed to have other members as well. Bureau 13 was almost exactly like Section 31...it's yet another element that DS9 seemed to have in common with B5.

 

[Drone]

Perhaps the thought that any one being scrutinized because of suspicions that they are an operative, would do a lot to dispel said concerns by this sartorial choice. As in, "no one actually involved with such an organization would wear sleek, crypto-fascistic gear. No this guy's just a clothes horse".

False flagging it all the way down the line!!!

 

[Smellincoffee]

[

The interesting thing is that my wife and I are doing a Babylon 5 rewatch, and I'm noticing that Section 31 bears an awfully strong resemblance to the Psi Corps. Even to the point where Bester comments to Garibaldi that there are threats that Earth has faced that the general public no nothing about because the Corps stopped them before they could do anything. Heck, they even had the evil black uniforms. But of course the Psi Corps came before Section 31, so...

That sounds an awful like the Second Foundation in Asimov's series, though the Second Foundation is a lot better at hiding in plain sight and not evil. They're not particularly good, but...