Section 31 series

[hux]

Would anyone else be interested in this - personally, i think it could be a fascinating series and although it would clearly be much darker than the usual trek due to the nature of Section 31's work, i actually think this is what trek needs for its next incarnation

This would obviously be a different kind of trek show and perhaps not appropriate for the optimistic nature of the trek world but i don't think anyone could argue against the fact that it would be truly fascinating to witness the machiavellian goings on of such an insidious and efficient organisation

Maybe the series could show the development of the organisation over the centuries and we could observe their involvement in major trek events down the years

Basically, it would be spooks in space

 

[Lorna]

I'd certainly like to see more of them and get more information about them and their beginnings etc but I don't think I'd want to see an entire series based around them.

 

[Temis the Vorta]

My take on S31 is that they're at the boundaries of what is acceptable in Star Trek. Doing a few episodes about them, okay. A whole series? Out of bounds. Star Trek does mean something more than just spaceships and funny-forehead aliens, which means there are things it can't be. The trick is knowing what it is, and isn't.

 

[Rush Limborg]

Would anyone else be interested in this - personally, i think it could be a fascinating series and although it would clearly be much darker than the usual trek due to the nature of Section 31's work, i actually think this is what trek needs for its next incarnation

This would obviously be a different kind of trek show and perhaps not appropriate for the optimistic nature of the trek world but i don't think anyone could argue against the fact that it would be truly fascinating to witness the machiavellian goings on of such an insidious and efficient organisation

Maybe the series could show the development of the organisation over the centuries and we could observe their involvement in major trek events down the years

Basically, it would be spooks in space

I'd love to see one--preferrably one focusing on Sloan and his associates.

It would give us a lot of insight on "What brought these people here? What made them take this path--what turned them into this?"

 

[Saquist]

Would anyone else be interested in this - personally, i think it could be a fascinating series and although it would clearly be much darker than the usual trek due to the nature of Section 31's work, i actually think this is what trek needs for its next incarnation

This would obviously be a different kind of trek show and perhaps not appropriate for the optimistic nature of the trek world but i don't think anyone could argue against the fact that it would be truly fascinating to witness the machiavellian goings on of such an insidious and efficient organisation

Maybe the series could show the development of the organisation over the centuries and we could observe their involvement in major trek events down the years

Basically, it would be spooks in space

I made a story on the Entire concept called:

Star Trek: Enigma

My initial idea was the seven man format, ship, crew and a Star Fleet liaison.

Captain Galo Saldivia
Admiral Tatyanna Vanya Starfleet go between
Ahnis Requis Re'al -tactical agent,medic,-Rigilian
Carlos Garza- Pilot
Ralos Veno- Romulan Royalty
Saquist- Star Fleet Security (yes that's where the name came from- vulcan
Dursk son of Chajox Klingon Ambassador to Romulus


Villain: Adoni and the Shape Shifter

The story was basically from the perspective of S-31 but slowly the S-31 captain begines to doubt his belief in the agency and Star Fleet begins working with them to take them down but Star Fleet actually secretly endorses the agency so the one contact, Admiral Vanya works carefully with counter missions.

----------------------

That was before though.
Now I think it should be a bit...sexier and romantic like X-files, or Bones and Alias with a Guy, Girl Duo and their team of necessary "know-hows" that help them accomplish there mission. I think there should be a personal stake like saving a certain loved one...some sort of long term vise that will eventually be accomplished over the course of years.

I like the concept of weekly fire fights and explosions, stealth, drama, plot twist with some epic ship battles and planet side reality that will ground the audience. I'd still like to keep the main bad guy who is a humanoid joined with a changling for some really dynamic fight scenes. I wanted Galo to eventually be known to most of the Federation after a time...much like a famous pirate and his ship a rogue captain of the high seas, I'll post the pictures I drew of the crew later

Book 1 Star Trek: Enigma-The Elite
Book 2 Star Trek: Enigma-Adoni & The Shape-shifter
Book 3 Star Trek: Enigma-EPIC
Book 4 Star Trek: Enigma-Trial by Fire
Book 5 Star Trek: Enigma-Ferengi Latinum & Gold
Book 6 Star Trek: Enigma-Shock & Awe
Book 7 Star Trek: Enigma-Remnants of Romulus
Book 8 Star Trek: Enigma-Denizens of Darkness
Book 9 Star Trek: Enigma-Roga's Rebels
Book 10 Star Trek: Enigma-Saquist & The Shape-shifter
Book 11Star Trek: Enigma-The Enemies of Life

My take on S31 is that they're at the boundaries of what is acceptable in Star Trek. Doing a few episodes about them, okay. A whole series? Out of bounds. Star Trek does mean something more than just spaceships and funny-forehead aliens, which means there are things it can't be. The trick is knowing what it is, and isn't.

Personally I think its time to expand those Horizons and be fore than travel among the Stars. Trek has a rich background, we can alway go back to exploration of the stars but I feel we've been stargazing to long and it's time to go planet side with Trek in a new and bold way.

 

[Saquist]

Admiral Tatyanna Vanya -Star Fleet Intelligence
Russian born: Age 34





Carlos Garza: Lieutenant
Pilot




Travis He'bert: Commander
Canadian born: Edmonton
This character was removed.





From left to right: Admiral Vanya; Captain Salidivia;Saquist;Dursk (pre-klingon makeup)

The Enigma Class Starship that Saldivia Commands

Spoiler: Enigma Class USS EPIC

The last movie changes a bit.
Enigma can now have stealth and cloak.
And the Romulan crew aren't just seeking freedom from the oppression of Romulus, they are now refugees. It makes it all that much more interesting.

 

[BillJ]

Ah, Section 31... everyone's favorite boogey-man.

 

[Saquist]

Section 31 has the most appeal because it's not going to be a rosey happy go lucky show. It would be consistently treacherous, dangerous and fascinating. That the allure for me. Personally I don't think they did the concept justice in DS9 or ENT. It was a good beginning but I would love it to be flushed out even more with a hard core action series.

I'd dump a but load a money into it and advertize it like crazy. And I firmly believe this would raise Star Trek's profile considerably and even romantize the characters like Jedi, Bond or Mission Impossible. It's bout time Trek blew some lids off and took a chunk out of the ratings buzz.

 

[BillJ]

Section 31 has the most appeal because it's not going to be a rosey happy go lucky show.
I'd dump a but load a money into it and advertize it like crazy. And I firmly believe this would raise Star Trek's profile considerably and even romantize the characters like Jedi, Bond or Mission Impossible. It's bout time Trek blew some lids off and took a chunk out of the ratings buzz.

I had written a lengthy reply... but I'll just summarize:

 

[Saquist]

Section 31 has the most appeal because it's not going to be a rosey happy go lucky show.
I'd dump a but load a money into it and advertize it like crazy. And I firmly believe this would raise Star Trek's profile considerably and even romantize the characters like Jedi, Bond or Mission Impossible. It's bout time Trek blew some lids off and took a chunk out of the ratings buzz.

I had written a lengthy reply... but I'll just summarize:

yeah, well I would have big things in store for trek if I was behind the reins, no more of this small time crap. Time to step up the game and despite not being traditional Trek Section 31 give the possibility for a real thriller.

 

[BillJ]

yeah, well I would have big things in store for trek if I was behind the reins, no more of this small time crap.

Seems the small-time 'crap' has sold fairly well for the last 44 years. So you may want to step back and re-evaluate your stance.

 

[Saquist]

yeah, well I would have big things in store for trek if I was behind the reins, no more of this small time crap.

Seems the small-time 'crap' has sold fairly well for the last 44 years. So you may want to step back and re-evaluate your stance.

Not at all.
Business is about progress. Star Trek's financial success has been peace meal and self sustaining. Everyone knows that. That's the entire purpose in the last movie, to begin expanding it's influence and brand recognition...so yes the small crap thinking for Trek has to go.

 

[BillJ]

Not at all.
Business is about progress. Star Trek's financial success has been piece meal and self sustaining. Everyone knows that.

Every projects first goal is to make back the studio's money. Which Star Trek has done in spades. So much so, that it was once referred to as the "Family Jewels" by a Paramount executive.

That's the entire purpose in the last movie, to begin expanding it's influence and brand recognition...so yes the small crap thinking for Trek has to go.

The purpose of the last movie was to wring every last dollar outta Trek that they could. And it did that. Nothing more.

Go pitch your Section 31 series and watch as the eyes of studio executives glaze over.

 

[Saquist]

Experts apparently rate Trek at 4 Billion


Star Wars:
$6.68 billion at the box office
$9 billion, has been shared by toy companies like Kenner and Hasbro
$1.6 billion has come from videogames developed by LucasArts, the gaming branch of Lucasfilms.
$200 million on novels


That's why I call Trek...piece meal. They've had longer and in my estimation ...better claim to recognition in places that really matter, like NASA and the Military, teachers and scienctist...all the underworld areas of society that effects our understanding and imagination.

The only reason why Trek has made as much as it has is because of 5 Series which Star Wars Never has...but if they did...Star Wars would be absolutely unstoppable.

The purpose of the last movie was to wring every last dollar outta Trek that they could. And it did that. Nothing more.

Go pitch your Section 31 series and watch as the eyes of studio executives glaze over.

I don't know that it's true. More than likely they've heard better because their are better writers and better idea men than myself.

More importantly...Timing is the biggest consideration.

 

[BillJ]

Experts apparently rate Trek at 4 Billion

Now think about that number. A failed 1960's TV series spurred on a franchise that made $4 billion dollars.

You call $4 billion piece-meal?

Star Wars:
$6.68 billion at the box office
$9 billion, has been shared by toy companies like Kenner and Hasbro
$1.6 billion has come from videogames developed by LucasArts, the gaming branch of Lucasfilms.
$200 million on novels

Apples and oranges (and I think you know it). There is roughly 14 hours of filmed Star Wars material pre-Clone Wars. Star Wars is a great franchise... but it is a different franchise. With different barometers of success and failure. Plus it had the advantage of being controlled by a single individual who wasn't concerned with what the stock price of the company was. Lucas (for good or ill) kept Star Wars fans wanting more by limiting the amount of material available. This is where Paramount failed... they created so much Star Trek that it was no longer unique. There are roughly seven hundred hours of filmed Trek. There is absolutely no way they could keep the product fresh to the audience. They took advantage of the fact that people would gobble up anything with Star Trek on it.

It was simple supply and demand. There was just more Trek than anybody wanted. With Star Wars the reverse happened.

The only reason why Trek has made as much as it has is because of 5 Series which Star Wars Never has...but if they did...Star Wars would be absolutely unstoppable.

No... Star Wars would then be in the same boat as Star Trek. To the point where over-saturation drove all but the hardcore fans away.

 

[Saquist]

Experts apparently rate Trek at 4 Billion

Now think about that number. A failed 1960's TV series spurred on a franchise that made $4 billion dollars.

You call $4 billion piece-meal?

93 Million \year
vs.
395 million /year

More than 4 times as much in less time. So yes, it's piece meal.

. Plus it had the advantage of being controlled by a single individual who wasn't concerned with what the stock price of the company was.

That certainly was a major consideration.

Lucas (for good or ill) kept Star Wars fans wanting more by limiting the amount of material available. This is where Paramount failed...

No, sir I do not agree with that interpretation.

They took advantage of the fact that people would gobble up anything with Star Trek on it.

If that was even remotely true then Star Trek Games and toys would have flooded the market in much the same way as Star Wars. The truth is they didn't do as you suggested, they mismanaged the franchise from a marketing stand point and that is why there such a difference in their profits.

 

[BillJ]

Experts apparently rate Trek at 4 Billion

Now think about that number. A failed 1960's TV series spurred on a franchise that made $4 billion dollars.

You call $4 billion piece-meal?

93 Million \year
vs.
395 million /year

More than 4 times as much in less time. So yes, it's piece meal.

Once again... $93 million a year from a failed 1960's TV show. One that Paramount desperately wanted to sell to Roddenberry in the early 70's.

Lucas (for good or ill) kept Star Wars fans wanting more by limiting the amount of material available. This is where Paramount failed...

No, sir I do not agree with that interpretation.

There is no interpretation. Simple fact: six Star Wars motion pictures and one CGI series (25 to 30 hours of material) vs. five television series plus eleven major motion pictures (700+ hours of material).

It's simple supply and demand.

Think about what happened in the 1990's and maybe you'll understand:

There were two TV series running at the same time on TV, a feature film franchise and Pocket Books was publishing two novels a month. In addition, Playmates were cranking out a toy line and every show on TV was being done in the comics as well. People were on a Star Trek overload from which their just now recovering.

If that was even remotely true then Star Trek Games and toys would have flooded the market in much the same way as Star Wars. The truth is they didn't do as you suggested, they mismanaged the franchise from a marketing stand point and that is why there such a difference in their profits.

Fact of the matter is that the games were mismanaged badly: Star Trek got bland first person shooters and the same space combat over and over while Star Wars got 'Shadows of the Empire' and 'Knights of the Old Republic' (I'm still waiting for a Trek game that equals this one). Where Star Trek was just reusing the same elements from the TV shows over and over in games, Star Wars was actually working to make their games feel like realistic expansions of the universe (which was smart with so little filmed material). Same goes for the comics and novels.

The reason Star Trek doesn't generate nearly the revenue Star Wars does has nothing to do with marketing and everything to do with how each property is approached by their respective copyright holders.

I think back to a quote from William Shatner after Star Trek V underperformed at the box office:

"What's so special about Thanksgiving when you can have turkey sandwiches everyday?"

I know I'm badly misremembering the exact wording. But the fact that he is referring to Star Trek: The Next Generation running on TV at the same time is clear. And whose to say he is wrong? Star Trek V had issues but did the presence of new Trek on TV keep some of the audience home?

 

[Temis the Vorta]

I don't know too much about Star Wars ancillary material like books, toys and video games other than a stroll through Toys R Us will prove that Star Wars has capitalized on this revenue stream far far better than Star Trek ever has.

But that doesn't really interest me much. What interests me is how well each franchise has managed to really capitalize on their core brand "message" in the main storylines delivered via TV and movies.

To date, this is my impression:

Star Trek

TOS -underappreciated at the time, capitalized upon over time in the movies; will stand the test of time (as proven by the success of Trek XI)

TNG - lucked out to hit the TV biz just before the explosion of DVD and cable rendered the business model for as a syndicated genre series untenable

DS9 - quality-wise, the best of the Trek series, but debuted just as the business model for a syndicated or network genre series was becoming increasingly untenable

VOY and ENT - regardless of the quality, they were doomed by being blindsided by the changes in the TV biz; genre shows belong on cable now

Movies - rose or fell based on the success of Trek on TV and more importantly, whether they could attract the audience that doesn't see themselves as a Star Trek fan

Trek XI - cleverly crafted movie that uses the core strengths of Star Trek - strong TOS characters, compelling premise - as a launching pad for future success, based on some (but not a whole lot of) updating for modern tastes

Star Wars

OT - unassailably mega-popular of course

PT - coasting on the success of the OT, but the lousy quality catastrophically damaged the credibility of the brand for anyone but children and the uber-loyal fanbase

The Clone Wars - this is the interesting part; just as I was willing to write off Star Wars for good, here comes this alleged "kid's show" that seems to be making huge strides in rebuilding Star Wars as a solid story that exists in its own well-defined and unique universe, and can be appreciated by kids and adults alike.

So we seem to be in a period where Star Trek and Star Wars are both undergoing a rebuilding phase after some very bad mismanagement (in Star Wars' case, so bad that I assumed it would never recover).

Star Trek is owned by Paramount, a public company that you'd expect to be more cold-blooded and professional about these things, and there is a coldly calculated aspect to how the brand is being revitalized - they are doing all the right things in a very responsible, bottom-line oriented way.

Star Wars is a privately held entity which means rationality need not apply. That's why I wrote the brand off - without shareholders howling for his blood, there was no reason Lucas "needed" to understand how badly he was frakking everything up. But now something really bizarre is occurring - the story is being revitalized for adults under the guise of a kid's series. The writing is starting to become similar to TOS, sophisticated enough for adults to enjoy it and simple enough that kids won't be too confused.

Of the two, what happens with Star Wars is the more interesting story. I have faith that Star Trek is now in good, but predictable hands. With Star Wars, all bets are off. It could become amazing.

And the franchises seem to have switched roles, with Star Trek focusing on movies for now and Star Wars recovering on TV. This will force both to take on aspects of the other: Star Trek will have to become more visceral, visual and action-based while Star Wars is already delving into the character- and political analogy-based writing that used to be Star Trek's forte (to the extent that I'm starting to worry that Star Wars is losing its unique identity).

I wouldn't worry that Star Wars will be overexposed on the Cartoon Network. Cable TV viewership is so small that even a solidly performing show will be seen by far fewer viewers than ENT even at its most dismal.

 

[Saquist]

A most Objective analysis, Temis.

 

[the skullcowboy]

the problem I see here is section 31 does not follow gene's vision of what the UFP or Starleet or even granted the " Trek " universe was supposed to be about, I remember reading that Gene had VERY specific guidelines for such matters and had entrusted people or rather tasked people with making sure his ideals were met and kept, While I think there is some leeway in this I doubt if an entire series could be done