Season TWO OFFICIAL TNG Blu-Ray Discussion Thread

[Harvey]

They haven't found the footage to make many extended episodes; money probably wouldn't solve that problem. Agreed about the lack of commentaries, though. CBS is just being cheap by not including them. Considering that The Prisoner, made twenty years before Star Trek: The Next Generation, managed to include commentaries on seven (out of 17) episodes, there's really no reason why they couldn't get together more than a few people in a recording studio for this.

 

[Rarewolf]

Would you like an added CGI Jabba The Hutt with that?

An unfinished sequence enhanced to fit into continuity to allow its inclusion. How awful.

So yes, if there's a deleted scene with a hutt in it that adds to the episode by being completed, Make it so.

They haven't found the footage to make many extended episodes; money probably wouldn't solve that problem. Agreed about the lack of commentaries, though. CBS is just being cheap by not including them. Considering that The Prisoner, made twenty years before Star Trek: The Next Generation, managed to include commentaries on seven (out of 17) episodes, there's really no reason why they couldn't get together more than a few people in a recording studio for this.

The money/time is assuming they haven't been through everything - various interviews suggest they've they've only looked where they knew they had to. They only made an extended MOAM because they had a rough cut to reference. Would they have looked without it?

The biggest comparison for me would be Doctor Who, where we have commentaries on 95% of episodes, some 49 years old. Even odd deleted scenes from the 1970s. Often a new documentary per story. (and still WE find things missed to moan about) But on the other hand its taking 13 years to release 150 odd releases at £20 a pop. Mistakes still happen. I'm just glad they weren't released in boxsets.

Just a shame they weren't recorded on 35mm...

 

[Harvey]

The money/time is assuming they haven't been through everything - various interviews suggest they've they've only looked where they knew they had to. They only made an extended MOAM because they had a rough cut to reference. Would they have looked without it?

From what I've read, it sounds as if their search for footage has been pretty exhaustive, which is why I said that more money wouldn't mean much in terms of extended episodes. The ones we are getting are a pleasant surprise.

The biggest comparison for me would be Doctor Who, where we have commentaries on 95% of episodes, some 49 years old. Even odd deleted scenes from the 1970s. Often a new documentary per story. (and still WE find things missed to moan about) But on the other hand its taking 13 years to release 150 odd releases at £20 a pop. Mistakes still happen. I'm just glad they weren't released in boxsets.

The Twilight Zone is another good example; the recent Blu-Ray releases (for a fifty year old show!) have commentaries for practically every episode (and many of the episodes have multiple commentaries, in addition to other features).

 

[BillJ]

Like I said before, I'd rather have had seasons every six months or so with consistent quality. If season two is screwed up, I'll simply start waiting for them to show up on TV or Netflix instead of spending cash on the sets.

I think the season is still awfully far from being "screwed up."

Which is why I said "if".

It may look great in motion, it may not. Just going to use it as a barometer on whether I'm going to be happy as a consumer with two different effects houses working every other season.

 

[Salinga]

Trailer from CBS is out:
[yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsfEKaUEMko[/yt]

 

[Tosk]

I don't recall an episode where we actually see the ship disappear before the explosion fully covers it. Not saying you are wrong, it's just that I can't remember something like that. Any examples?

The first ones that springs to mind is the shuttle carrying Data, Worf and Picard in Best of Both Worlds pt 2, and the shuttle carrying Data in The Most Toys. (Not that the ship just pops out before the explosion, the explosion is almost all over it before the remaining ship disappears.)

And to be fair, I think a lot of the ones I'm picturing in my mind might be like the Lantree in Unnatural Selection, where it doesn't disappear too early, it's just that all the parts of the ship explode independent of each other at the same time and leave nothing behind. Not much they can do about that I suppose without changing the content more than they have been doing so far. I doubt they'll add debris to any destructions that didn't have it before.

Flicking through a few episodes, I'll fully admit I might have been judging too harshly based only on memory, but there was definitely a trend towards having an explosion overlay lead to absolute disintegration because it was cheaper to do.

 

[Salinga]

Worf firing at will (cinemagraph made from the trailer):

 

[throwback]

This process of destruction - overlaying the explosion over a model - was done for budget reasons. Models were expensive; they couldn't afford to build a model that was designed to self-destruct.

It wasn't until CGI that ships were actually being destroyed. My favorite moment of a ship being destroyed was a Steamrunner-class starship that was walloped by a piece of Borg ship.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

If you look closely at this new trailer, when the Yamato explodes, you can see they animated the nacelles and engineering hull slightly drifting away from each other and breaking apart. It wasn't that way originally.

You can see it in the first Season Two trailer as well.

 

[Salinga]

 

[Tosk]

It wasn't until CGI that ships were actually being destroyed.

Not true. The Borg ship on The Best of Both Worlds pt 2 and the many Enterprise explosions in Cause and Effect are notable examples of ships built to be destroyed.

 

[throwback]

I apologize for not being clear. What I meant to say was, generally, they did this process to save money. A good rule, there are always exceptions.

I have seen the trailer for this season. I don't see what someone else saw when the Yamato exploded - the disintegration of the ship's engineering hull.

I never did figure what that piece of the Yamato that hit the Enterprise was nor where it was located on the ship.

 

[Maxwell Everett]

I have seen the trailer for this season. I don't see what someone else saw when the Yamato exploded - the disintegration of the ship's engineering hull.

The nacelles and the engineering hull don't disintegrate, but they do drift apart very slightly (away from each other and the saucer). It's very subtle -- only lasts about 10 frames. You have to really look at it frame by frame to see it.

If you open the trailer in Quicktime and change the timecode to "frame number" to the left of the scrub bar, it lasts from frame 115-124.

 

[Jaro Stun]

Yeah it definitely stands out more, but I've always thought that model looked kind of cool from the front anyway, so I can live with it.

This shot (i.e. the 2-foot miniature) doesn't bother me so much... except for the visible matte line around the ship -- which is a little inexplicable considering this new shot was digitally composited using original elements, not optically composited.

Still looks leagues better than the crappy NTSC composite.

Very true, but so would an upscaled transfer, like the example we saw on the Season 1 set. At some point though, we have to say that this isn't up to the standards we now expect from TNG HD. Having said that, I can probably live with everything I've seen so far.

It's such a relief though that CBS-D is working on Season 3.

This.

Definitely an upgrade compared to DVD,mbut by far not as grundbreaking as S1 was. S2 looks WORSE. Based on the shots published so far.

I'm so happy S3 is by CBS-D.

 

[LOKAI of CHERON]

All this talk is seriously dampening my enthusiasm for this release. I'll wait till I've reviewed the entire season in motion on my home cinema system before calling it - but, I must admit, based on the evidence thus far presented, it's looking like this set will fall short of the exemplary standards set by season one.

 

[FrontierTrek]

This.

Definitely an upgrade compared to DVD,mbut by far not as grundbreaking as S1 was. S2 looks WORSE. Based on the shots published so far.

I'm so happy S3 is by CBS-D.

Season 1 was definitely groundbreaking. It's a shame CBS had to go out of house for Season 2, I think everyone would have loved CBS Digital to continue through all 7 seasons. Still, I'm sure Season 2 will still delight us when it hits shelves

All this talk is seriously dampening my enthusiasm for this release. I'll wait till I've reviewed the entire season in motion on my home cinema system before calling it - but, I must admit, based on the evidence thus far presented, it's looking like this set will fall short of the exemplary standards set by season one.

Ah you shouldn't let it dampen your enthusiasm, Lokai! There's no denying that the shots we've seen so far lack the love and lustre that CBS Digital put into Season 1, but it's still going to look beautiful compared to the original SD material, and the bonus content alone is worth the price of admission - it will be INCREDIBLE!

 

[BillJ]

...the bonus content alone is worth the price of admission - it will be INCREDIBLE!

But what about someone like me who hardly pays any attention to the bonus material? I just want a consistent looking product.

Especially considering the fact that alot of stock footage should be indistinguishable from season to season.

 

[NewHorizon]

From Season 3 onward, I don't care how, but CBS-D and HTV had better come up with a system to make sure the quality measures up to Season 1 right across the board.

A poster above nailed it completely. The Season 2 effects shots lack the love that CBS-D poured into Season 1.

 

[Scotty]

After seeing this new trailer I have actually stopped worrying. Apparently the rest of you are not seeing what I am seeing because IMO Dan Curry and his team have remained faithful to the original effects work. I for one love the planets. Although I loved CBS D's work on season 1, they often (had to) replace original effects with new CGI effects. Those look great, but when you look for example at the planet effects in season 1, they don't look like the planet effects we knew from TNG in later seasons. Dan Curry's team seems to have been much more succesful in keeping that TNG aesthetic and feel and I for one am glad.

Same goes for keeping the original explosion effects. CBS D replaced all explosion effects with new CGI effects, perhaps out of necessity. But I'm glad that Dan Curry's team is sticking to the original filmed effects wherever possible.

I reserve the right to change my opinion of course. And I would advise against drawing any conclusions before you've seen the final product. Don't judge the restoration on a couple of low res pictures and a poorly encoded youtube trailer.

 

[throwback]

It's the small things that make me happy. I am hoping that it will be possible to make out some of the ship names on the chart in "The Measure of a Man." If that's possible, I will be indeed happy.